A ReMINDer from Jundo on Zazen ... "In the Zoneless Zone"

[Roland]

A ReMINDer from Jundo on Zazen ... "In the Zoneless Zone"

Thank you Jundo. All this you've told us before, yet explaining it once again is so very valuable. As someone said before in this thread, saving these texts and coming back to them regularly seems like a very good idea.

Gassho
Roland
#SatToday

[alan.r]

Thank you Jundo. That is so beautiful and true. I'm glad you are you, and you are here. In a you-less., here-less way .


Gassho
Daizan


sat today

Ditto this. Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,
Alan
sattoday

[Jakugan]

Thank you jundo for this teaching and everyone's input, this could not have had better timing for me.

I have been feeling a bit stressed about selling our house and there have been some tensions in our family. As a result I have been sitting on the cushion, with my mind wandering, wishing I were somewhere else rather than dealing with what was in front of me. Too easy to fall into the trap and miss the true essence of zazen.

Gassho,

simon

sat today.

[Meredith]

Thank you Jundo. Gassho,

Meredith
SatToday

[Jundo]

I have been feeling a bit stressed about selling our house and there have been some tensions in our family.

Yes, yes, selling or moving home is among of the most stressful events in modern peoples' lives ... yet what is One's True Home which cannot be Bought or Sold? (A Koan)

Tensions in the family are always stressful ... yet What Tensions and Divisions among the Family of All Buddhas? (Same Koan)

A poem by 17th Century Soto Priest, Gesshu Soko, referencing the lines of the Sandokai ("The Identity of Relative and Absolute") which remind us, "The absolute meets the relative, like two arrow points that touch in mid air. Hearing this, simply perceive what is ..."

Breathing in, breathing out,
Moving forward, moving back,
Living, dying, coming, going --
Like two arrows meeting in flight,
In the midst of nothingness
There is a road that goes directly
to my true home.

And, for all our talk about "formuli" and "slogans" for how to merge the "relative" and "absolute", a reminder from Dogen that all such are just hints and helpers, and must actually by Put Into Practice, in the Buddha Family (from Bendowa) ...

Some, attracted by a natural setting of mountains and water with its plants and flowers, have flowed from there into the Way of Buddhas. Others, whilst gathering up in their hands the soil with its sand and pebbles, have preserved the Buddha seal. How much more are the myriad images which fill the universe surpassed by the far-reaching words of a Buddha—which are all the more rich!—and the turning of the Great Wheel of the Dharma is contained within each single dust mote. This is why a phrase like ‘Your very mind is Buddha Itself ’ is as the moon within water, and why the import of ‘Sitting in meditation is itself becoming Buddha’ is as a reflection in a mirror. Do not get tangled up or taken in by a clever use of words. In order that you may now push on in your training to realize enlightenment in this instant, I show you the marvelous path which the Buddhas and Ancestors have directly Transmitted, and I do this that you may become a genuine follower of the Way.

So, talking may help clarify and point to a good way, but best to get on with it.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[shikantazen]

Nice words, but words are just words. If results/progress doesn't happen these words are not going to help. You have to be cut for this spiritual stuff (not just Zen, but any kind of meditation). For some people (like me), it simply doesn't work. I have spent years with this meditation stuff and my life hasn't changed. I should be a man and leave all this. But am not able to. Afraid to let go of this crutch even though it is good for nothing (not Sawaki's "good for nothing", really good for nothing).

Gassho,
Sam
Sat Today

[Jundo]

Nice words, but words are just words. If results/progress doesn't happen these words are not going to help. You have to be cut for this spiritual stuff (not just Zen, but any kind of meditation). For some people (like me), it simply doesn't work. I have spent years with this meditation stuff and my life hasn't changed. I should be a man and leave all this. But am not able to. Afraid to let go of this crutch even though it is good for nothing (not Sawaki's "good for nothing", really good for nothing).

Gassho,
Sam
Sat Today

Hi Sam,

It might be so. Traditional Buddhism explained this by Karma, that some people are not suited (or ready). Chanting to Amida for admission to the Pure Land is one option that was traditionally offered, for things surely will go well in that realm. Other folks, I feel, might do better with Jesus or Thor or, perhaps, nothing at all (maybe just taking up a hobby like collecting stamps would be a better use of one's time).

By I would not quit too quickly either ... for the old Zen stories tell again and again of old Zen folks who wrestled with such matters for years or decades before it all "clicked". I bet you will oneday "click", and it will be in this world without even need to head into some next. In the meantime, you are not hurting anyone, could have worse ways to spend one's time, and (if you really look in the mirror) more might be sinking in that you recognize.

Someday we may have a faster way to go about this, or know exactly what brain buttons to push for instant results. However, in the meantime, there is only the "old school" ways of sitting Zazen and picking up some unfathomable Buddhist writings to point the way.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[shikantazen]

[Jishin]

If results/progress doesn't happen these words are not going to help.

Hi Sam,

What could you possibly expect to attain by siting Zazen and doing nothing?

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[shikantazen]

Jishin,

"Stop" suffering. "Gain" the ability to be at peace with things, however they are.

Gassho, Sam, Sat Today

[Jishin]

Jishin,

"Stop" suffering. "Gain" the ability to be at peace with things, however they are.

Gassho, Sam, Sat Today

Hi Sam,

There is no stoping suffering and no no stoping suffering. There is no gaining the ability to be at peace with things, however they are and no no gaining the ability to be at peace with things, however they are.

There is no attaining with nothing to attain. So why just not sit, chill out, manifest our perfect expression of our Buddha nature and help some sentient beings? We are perfect as we are. We don't become Buddhas by sitting. We sit because we are Buddhas. No where to go man. Just this and you are it.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[shikantazen]

So why just not sit, chill out

Yes, I don't have any other option

Gassho,
Sam
Sat Today

[Jundo]

Hi Sam,

There is no stoping suffering and no no stoping suffering. There is no gaining the ability to be at peace with things, however they are and no no gaining the ability to be at peace with things, however they are.

There is no attaining with nothing to attain. So why just not sit, chill out, manifest our perfect expression of our Buddha nature and help some sentient beings? We are perfect as we are. We don't become Buddhas by sitting. We sit because we are Buddhas. No where to go man. Just this and you are it.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

I must apologize to you, Jishin, because I misread your point here the first time. Yes.

I just want to make it clear to folks who may also misunderstand: There is a way to be free of suffering, a way to gain being at peace with things. It is not merely a matter of resignation or chilling out, and it is not a matter of merely saying "we are all Buddha, so what the hell!!.

We sure can be free of suffering and gain peace ... but the counterintuitive aspect is that such can (and best) occur right in the heart of human suffering. One "attains" peace with how things are by giving up the chase after "peace", thereby resting in how things are.

Our Talk today during Zazenkai was on this really ... kind of a serious talk with all that has been in the news this week: I want to call it "A Joyous, Peaceful, Content (even Happy) talk about War, Earthquake, Broken Hearts, Disease and Death". Please have a listen (from the 1:51 minute mark) ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13419-May-1st-2nd-2015-OUR-MONTHLY-4-hour-ZAZENKAI%21&p=153419&viewfull=1#post153419

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Joyo]

I've been thinking a lot about what Sam, Jundo and Jishin have said here. It brought some interesting points up. For me, if my main goal was to attain a sense of peace and tranquility, I would stick to my yoga practice only. Yoga always helps me have a sense of calm, both physically and mentally. Zazen is a much different practice.

However, there is a drive within that motivates me to sit (almost) every day. If I miss a day, it's as if a big bowl of nothing is missing, and it feels off. Sam's honest comments made me ask myself, why do I sit? I've had the same thoughts as he, I'm not getting anything here. I'm not accomplishing a damn thing. In fact, I'm bored and my back is sore as I sit with this monkey mind. However, in my accomplishing nothing, I've learned to sit with my anger, my sadness, physical pain, mental pain as well as happiness and joy.....all sorts of things. Oh they are still there, zazen hasn't magically or miraculously taken them away or transformed my joy into a permanent state. But through it all, learning to sit with these things, something is happening, in a nothing sort of way.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jundo]