Is everything existing only "inside"?

[Kyosei]

Friends,

Lately these days, I've been thinking about how to express in my daily life some experiences I had in Zazen, like, if there is no difference between Buddha, Dharma and Sangha,

If the Dharma is the Buddha and all of the sentient beings,

Does everything has Buddha-Nature, or Buddha have (contains) everything?

In another words, is everything existing "inside" only? (just a way of talk, for there are moments I just don't know if it's "inside" or "outside")

So what is the main role of every thing and each person in my life, to teach I am in control? if so, why there are apparent individualities?

How can I "check" if this truth? how can I deepen this "understanding"?

I beg you sorry if it seems I am making assumptions, but I'd tried to express in words the way I was "developing" a "glimpse" I had for you to share your thoughts with me.

[Ugrok]

Hello !

The answer to your last question about understanding and checking if this is "truth" or not is beyond categories like "inside", "outside", "container", "contained", etc. It can be experienced by just sitting. If you practice sitting with those questions - meaning, just letting them be, not trying to think about them -, they will, in time, just drop away and become irrelevant.

Almost everyone goes through those kind of questions, though, they are great koans which need to be investigated thoroughly ! You can do that by reading texts about emptiness, like the Heart Sutra translated by Red Pine, or Nagarjuna's Treaty of the Middle Way, while keeping a steady and regular zazen practice...

I think you should trust those moments when you don't know if something is inside or outside. In mahayana philosophy, and in yogachara, "inside" and "outside" are not relevant to talk about life as it is. This "don't know" mind, as Seung Sahn, a famous zen master, says, might be the answer.

Have a good sit !

Gassho,

Ugrok
Sat Today

[Jundo]

What Ugrok said.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kyosei]

Thank you ugrok and Jundo, but the point that is "itching" here is this: "why there are apparent individualities?" if everything's the same, how can I treat people "as individuals"?

"Almost everyone goes through those kind of questions, though, they are great koans which need to be investigated thoroughly ! You can do that by reading texts about emptiness, like the Heart Sutra translated by Red Pine, or Nagarjuna's Treaty of the Middle Way, while keeping a steady and regular zazen practice..."

how can I read these texts properly, is there a method to "study" them? (I have Thich Nhat Hahn's "Heart of Comprehension" and Dalai Lama's commentaries on the "Heart Sutra", are they good sources?)

Gassho,

Marcos

[Jundo]

Hello,

All people are not individual at all, all people are. So, be as gentle as possible in this life.

Sitting Zazen is the method, reading some of what was pointed to helps give direction.

Gassho, J

SatToday

PS - Different Teachers and Traditions explain the same things (and non-things) in different ways (though not different). Tibetan ways, TNH ways, same but different, different but the same. Here is the reading list for Soto Zen flavor that we recommend here. A lot there on Heart Sutra and such.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?5711-SUGGESTED-BOOK-MEDIA-LIST-for-TREELEAF-SANGHA

In addition to Red Pine, the new Takahashi Sensei book on Heart Sutra, due out this week, is bound to be good.

http://www.shambhala.com/the-heart-sutra-2.html

Also, this new book on Dongshan, by Taigen who will be visiting us at Treeleaf next month, is also bound to be good.

http://www.shambhala.com/just-this-is-it.html

[Kyosei]

Hello,

All people are not individual at all, all people are. So, be as gentle as possible in this life.

All people are what, where?

If don't exists individuals beyond Buddha, then who is answering this topic?

I am starting to understand that Buddha is questioning and being answered by Buddha, but how to explain this?

So, be as gentle as possible in this life.

Why so? maybe if I am not, at times, is it Buddha hurting the same Buddha?

Gassho

[Jundo]

All people are what, where?

Yes. Just so.

If don't exists individuals beyond Buddha, then who is answering this topic?

Yes. There is nobody beyond Buddha answering this question. So, I am answering, and I am not Buddha.

I am starting to understand that Buddha is questioning and being answered by Buddha, but how to explain this?

This is Buddha's question to Marcos, but who is answering?

Why so? maybe if I am not, at times, is it Buddha hurting the same Buddha?

OUCH!

Gassho, J

[Sekishi]

Thank you ugrok and Jundo, but the point that is "itching" here is this: "why there are apparent individualities?" if everything's the same, how can I treat people "as individuals"?

Why indeed! Philosophy 101 is filled with these questions. When the acorn is on the oak tree, is it the same or different? When it falls to the ground, is it the same or different? When it begins to sprout, is it the same or different? I recently saw a thing about how huge old redwood trees pass nutrients along to young redwoods around them via mycelium (e.g. the mycelium tap into the roots of both the huge redwood and the young redwood for its own purposes, and in turn transfers nutrients from elder to younger). Three different organisms. Are they separate, or merely different?

What I would say from my limited understanding is that there are indeed different forms (e.g. "apparent individualities"), but they are not separate. Like all analogies, this one is deeply flawed, but sometimes I imagine a long piece of yarn laid out on a table. With that piece of yarn, we can lay out the outlines of beautiful forms, trees, symbols, geometric shapes, etc. Each is different. But if we pull the two ends of the yarn, it straightens out into a single string again. Each form was part of a whole.

All that said, what I value about our practice so much is that it is NOT philosophy (for all that Dogen, Nagarjuna and others may have engaged in a bit philosophy from time to time), but a "way". We attempt to refrain from unhelpful actions, and to take up helpful ones. We sit. We bow with gratitude to all sentient beings. Sometimes we might even glimpse a glimmer of the fact that everything is sentient, and we bow to the whole Buddha field, the whole ball of yarn.

But I don't know anything, so take that with a grain of salt.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday with the ball of yarn, knots and all

[Jishin]

Is everything existing only "inside"?

Friends,

Lately these days, I've been thinking about how to express in my daily life some experiences I had in Zazen, like, if there is no difference between Buddha, Dharma and Sangha,

If the Dharma is the Buddha and all of the sentient beings,

Does everything has Buddha-Nature, or Buddha have (contains) everything?

In another words, is everything existing "inside" only? (just a way of talk, for there are moments I just don't know if it's "inside" or "outside")

So what is the main role of every thing and each person in my life, to teach I am in control? if so, why there are apparent individualities?

How can I "check" if this truth? how can I deepen this "understanding"?

I beg you sorry if it seems I am making assumptions, but I'd tried to express in words the way I was "developing" a "glimpse" I had for you to share your thoughts with me.

Drop the questions. Quit splitting the world in two and one answer appears.

Gassho, Jishin

[Kyosei]

_/|\_

[Jundo]

Drop the questions. Quit splitting the world in two and one answer appears.

Gassho, Jishin

What Jishin didn't say.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

What Jishin didn't say.

Gassho, J

SatToday

I said too much...

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

With that piece of yarn, we can lay out the outlines of beautiful forms, trees, symbols, geometric shapes, etc. Each is different. But if we pull the two ends of the yarn, it straightens out into a single string again. Each form was part of a whole.

That is truly a lovely, lovely little film.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

That is truly a lovely, lovely little film.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Very cool.

Gassho, Jishin

[Troy]

Why indeed! Philosophy 101 is filled with these questions. When the acorn is on the oak tree, is it the same or different? When it falls to the ground, is it the same or different? When it begins to sprout, is it the same or different? I recently saw a thing about how huge old redwood trees pass nutrients along to young redwoods around them via mycelium (e.g. the mycelium tap into the roots of both the huge redwood and the young redwood for its own purposes, and in turn transfers nutrients from elder to younger). Three different organisms. Are they separate, or merely different?

What I would say from my limited understanding is that there are indeed different forms (e.g. "apparent individualities"), but they are not separate. Like all analogies, this one is deeply flawed, but sometimes I imagine a long piece of yarn laid out on a table. With that piece of yarn, we can lay out the outlines of beautiful forms, trees, symbols, geometric shapes, etc. Each is different. But if we pull the two ends of the yarn, it straightens out into a single string again. Each form was part of a whole.

All that said, what I value about our practice so much is that it is NOT philosophy (for all that Dogen, Nagarjuna and others may have engaged in a bit philosophy from time to time), but a "way". We attempt to refrain from unhelpful actions, and to take up helpful ones. We sit. We bow with gratitude to all sentient beings. Sometimes we might even glimpse a glimmer of the fact that everything is sentient, and we bow to the whole Buddha field, the whole ball of yarn.

But I don't know anything, so take that with a grain of salt.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday with the ball of yarn, knots and all

Thank you. Loved your words and that short film


..sat2day•