A Question Regarding Understanding the Four Noble Truths and Their Practice

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  • jcboysha
    Member
    • Feb 2015
    • 9

    A Question Regarding Understanding the Four Noble Truths and Their Practice

    In my studies I have tried to learn the ways of life that lead to the path of the Boddhisatva. Although I do not yet believe myself ready to read, and be acceptably open to the message of, the Sutras, I have been studying from various resources over the years. In reading from various texts I have come to believe that to truly understand the path to enlightenment one must accept, understand, and find guidance in the four noble truths. These truths tell us that Dukkha (suffering, animosity, dissatisfaction, etc) exists, Dukkha has a cause, Liberation from Dukkha can be achieved, and that liberation can be found in following the noble eightfold path. The Buddha turned the dharma wheel 3 times. In each of these times the truths were revealed and expanded in a way that the unenlightened could understand.
    The first turning of the wheel of Dharma was a teaching of recognition. The Buddha showed that the four noble truths existed. He lead the people to the recognition of Dukkha, the cessation of Dukkha, the way to cease Dukkha, and that the noble eightfold path was the way to cease Dukkha.

    The second turning of the wheel of Dharma was a teaching of encouragement. In the second turning the seeds of the Buddha’s teachings began to sprout in the mind of followers. In this encouragement we learn to embrace Dukkha in order to understand it, we learn to understand why and how Dukkha is arising in our lives, we learn that we should seek to cease Dukkha in our lives, and we learn that the noble eightfold path should be lived to cease Dukkha.

    The third turning of the wheel of Dharma was a teaching of realization. In the third turning the sprouts of the Buddha’s teachings begin to bloom in the mind of followers. In this realization we learn that we understand our Dukkha, we learn that we understand how and why Dukkha arises in our lives, we learn that we have ceased our Dukkha by truly understanding the cessation of Dukkha and that happiness and Dukkha are in fact one, and we learn that we have begun to follow the noble eightfold path.

    What I ask the community and the teachers if this is an accurate summary of the way of practice of the Four Noble Truths as conveyed by the Dharma? I believe that to practice I must understand; in order to understand I must question; in order to question I must learn. I believe I have begun to learn, but I need, now, to question.

    I look forward to hearing from all of you.

    Gassho.
  • Myosha
    Member
    • Mar 2013
    • 2974

    #2
    Hello,

    Great question. Best of . .


    Gassho,
    Myosha sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40813

      #3
      Hello JC,

      Welcome again.

      Here is the explanation of the Four Noble Truths I usually offer around here.

      Buddha-Basics (Part I) — Scooby Dooby Dukkha
      Were going to start a new series of 'Sit-a-Long with Jundo’s' on some fundamental Buddhist teachings — those things every Buddhist needs to know (and not know) — and maybe the most fundamental, insightful and elegant is the Buddha’s teaching of the Four Noble Truths, and Dukkha: So, what are the 'Four Noble Truths' (the


      ... rest in the series here ...



      as well as our Zazen for Beginners (We're All Always Beginners) Series ...



      Please go through those, come back with your question, and I'll be happy to chat more.

      Gassho, Jundo
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • jcboysha
        Member
        • Feb 2015
        • 9

        #4
        I will strive to understand these teachings.

        Thank you.

        Gassho.

        JC Sat Today

        Comment

        • Kokuu
          Dharma Transmitted Priest
          • Nov 2012
          • 6887

          #5
          I believe that to practice I must understand
          Hi jcb

          You really don't. It is great to have a thirst for dharma but beyond a basic conception of the four noble truths, you are going to be fine with just sitting. I have found that understanding dukkha happens most by observing how reactions and attachments happen in my own life both on and off the cushion.

          Personally, I think that the three turnings of the wheel seem like a retrospective packaging of Buddhist teachings by scholars. It is useful as regards a historical perspective of how the teachings evolved from Hinayana (a term I dislike) to Mahayana and even Vajrayana, but not greatly useful to practice.

          Put down the books and pull up a cushion. All of life is here.

          Gassho
          Kokuu
          #sattoday
          Last edited by Kokuu; 02-06-2015, 07:02 PM.

          Comment

          • Stacy
            Member
            • Mar 2013
            • 84

            #6
            Hello JC,

            I echo the above thoughts by Kokuu.

            Sometimes you think, sometimes you do. There is learning by doing. Practice takes practice.

            "Once I have/get this thing, then I'll be good." That's an example of dukkha, or at least where it comes from (second noble truth).

            Just don't be afraid to try to act and practice before you fully understand, OK? That's what I'm really getting at. Sit with what you don't understand. I learned some things in reading your words--maybe I heard about that wheel-turning business before or not, I dunno. But I'm practicing, as best as I can.

            Just what this one thinks, is all.


            Gassho,
            Stacy

            #SatToday
            Last edited by Stacy; 02-06-2015, 08:01 PM.

            Comment

            • jcboysha
              Member
              • Feb 2015
              • 9

              #7
              Kokuu

              Thank you for your advice. I am planning to work through the teachings in the Beginning Zazen Sit-Alongs on the forum; perhaps after this I will better understand the purpose of just sitting.

              Gassho

              JC Sat Today
              Last edited by jcboysha; 02-06-2015, 07:45 PM. Reason: Submitted too early.

              Comment

              • Risho
                Member
                • May 2010
                • 3178

                #8
                Originally posted by Kokuu
                Put down the books and pull up a cushion. All of life is here.
                I like this. Thank you Kokuu

                But reading is good too; without practice, it's just a scholarly hobby.

                Gassho,

                Risho
                -sattoday
                Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                Comment

                • Jishin
                  Member
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 4821

                  #9
                  Hi,

                  It's only Dukkha if it's Dukkha. Maybe there ain't no Dukkha and its all a product of my imagination. Maybe there is Dukkha and its a product of my imagination. Who knows?

                  Gassho, Jishin

                  #SatToday
                  Last edited by Jishin; 02-06-2015, 08:18 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Daiyo
                    Member
                    • Jul 2014
                    • 819

                    #10
                    Hi jc.

                    I started as you did, and only 2 years ago.
                    Eventually I got so confused and tired of trying to process everything through the intellect that I started "just sitting" out of lazyness.

                    I can not say I understood a lot, nor can I explain with greater detail what you did, but I did found out some aspects of the 4 noble truths in my life naturally.

                    Take your time, chew things slowly, there's no need to swallow everything at once.

                    The folks here suggest to start sitting and let things show themselves, and I can assure you they do not say that to sound zenny. I can promise thngs will become clear naturally because I experienced that, and it's so difficult to use words to describe how.
                    You'll feel much more comfortable and in ease if you slow your pace and start sitting as soon as you can.


                    Gassho,
                    Daiyo

                    #SatToday
                    Gassho,Walter

                    Comment

                    • Jundo
                      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 40813

                      #11
                      Some wise folks and good counsel here.

                      Gassho, J

                      SatToday
                      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                      Comment

                      • jcboysha
                        Member
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 9

                        #12
                        I would like to thank all of you for your counsel and kind words of wisdom. I have much to consider and I thank you all for this very warm and deep introduction to this community. I can only hope that my practice will bring me the clarity that you all have brought to this question I posed.

                        Gassho.

                        JC Sat Today.

                        Comment

                        • Kyonin
                          Dharma Transmitted Priest
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 6748

                          #13
                          Hi!

                          I always say that reading will only take you so far. If you spend 2 hours reading, then go spend 100 hours sitting. It's not a rule or anything like that, but what I want to say is: go sit!

                          Gassho,

                          Kyonin
                          #SatToday
                          Hondō Kyōnin
                          奔道 協忍

                          Comment

                          • Jamen
                            Member
                            • May 2014
                            • 22

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Kokuu
                            Put down the books and pull up a cushion. All of life is here.

                            Gassho
                            Kokuu
                            #sattoday
                            This smacked me in the kisser. Thanks.

                            Comment

                            • Ishin
                              Member
                              • Jul 2013
                              • 1359

                              #15
                              Hello

                              I 100% agree that you can just sit, but I also appreciate the understanding of WHY and WHAT we are doing. Buddhism is a very old tradition and you could do a doctorate thesis on just the 4 noble truths. I have read from several sources on the subject, including the forum teachings here. I also very much enjoyed reading Gudo Wafu Roshi's take on the 4 noble truths, outlined in the book To Meet the Real Dragon. You could probably read 100 more explanations and opinions.

                              Frankly I personally don't see what is so hard to understand about it taken on face value. There is suffering in life and it comes from the separation from what life is and what we want life to be. It's pretty simplistic really. Getting to the solution for yourself might not be.

                              Gassho
                              Ishin
                              Sat Today
                              Last edited by Ishin; 02-09-2015, 02:57 AM.
                              Grateful for your practice

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