Putting an End to Buddhist Patriarchy

[Kokuu]

Hello all

This piece is mostly about Theravada but it is good to remember that traditional Buddhism is not without its problems when it comes to recognising women. I am very grateful that American Zen has a great tradition of female priests and teachers and for the gender balance here at Treeleaf.

http://www.tricycle.com/blog/putting-end-buddhist-patriarchy

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Sekishi]

Thank you for sharing this update from Ajahn Brahm. It is sad that he had to be cut from his lineage for working for bhikkhuni ordination.

I know he represents a very different "container" for teaching than Soto Zen, but Ajahn Brahm really is a jewel. I still listen to his talks often.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday

[Jundo]

Just to make clear that it is not only Theravada Buddhism, Chan/Zen in China and Japan was about as sexist, and pretty much a man's world until recently (really even now in Asia, with some big big exceptions). That is why we chant the Zen "Patriarchs", only recently changed in the West to "Ancestors". Then, Zen Priests had to hunt around to put together a list of female Ancestors ...

http://emptynestzendo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BD-Sp-14_56-58_Schireson.pdf

It is not about the theoretical lack of difference between male and female in the Dharma, where all differences of any kind are said to be swept away. Rather, it is a cultural fact of traditional, agricultural, conservative Asian societies and the traditional, conservative, Asian men who became Buddhist priests.

Dogen, by the way, has a pretty amazing chapter of Shobogenzo which is completely devoted to heralding Buddhist women and female Teachers ... Raihaitokuzui. But on other days he talked like a traditional, conservative Asian man of the 13th century, which is what he was. So he was also apparently of two minds on this.

A wonderful book ... wonderful ... of essays by modern women Zen Priests on Raiheitokuzui and other Dogen writings, reviewed here ...

http://www.sfzc.org/misc/BD%20Sp%2013_77-79_Review%20Heine.pdf

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Byokan]

Thanks for posting this, Kokuu

I realize I really don't know what the role of women is in Soto Zen and specifically here at Treeleaf. I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions: What is the difference between a Priest, a Nun, and a Bhikkhuni? If a woman ordains at Treeleaf, would she be a Priest in training or a Nun in training? I read once, long ago, that Buddhist Nuns in monastic settings are generally subservient to the Priests, is that true? (I hope not.) Is there any difference at all in our Lineage between ordained women and ordained men? Are there still extra vows for women? Anything else we girls should know??

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jundo]

In our Sangha, we fully transcend and each fully embody "priest and lay and male and female". In other words, no difference whatsoever and we are each who we are. I ometimes say that, in our Sangha, we are both priest and lay ... and the best terms might thus be "Play" or "Leist".

If you would like to read a good report on what it is to be a female priest/nun (just Western words for niso ... 尼僧) in Japanese Soto Zen ...

https://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/nfile/1854

Gassho, J

[Byokan]

In our Sangha, we fully transcend and each fully embody "priest and lay and male and female". In other words, no difference whatsoever and we are each who we are. I ometimes say that, in our Sangha, we are both priest and lay ... and the best terms might thus be "Play" or "Leist".

Hi Jundo,

Glad to hear it!

That article shows great strides for Nuns in Japan but... hmm... hopefully we will take equality the rest of the way here at Treeleaf. We are the future, after all!

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jika]

Oh, this triggered an outburst of dictionarianism!

My Japanese friend is the only friend refusing me to call me by my childhood (still used) nickname, because of its German pronunciation
dani (dunny)
だに which means - "oh no, not a good name, I can't call you that!" - a mite.
The first part seems to be a bad packhorse, too.

So I seem to be a mite-lay packhorse
No mite allergy, but the whip might have struck a bone or two

Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday

[adrianbkelly]

Thanks for the link, Kokuu. I really admire Ajahn Brahm for ordaining Bhikkhunis, doing the right thing in the face of so much conservative opposition.

I wouldn't recommend reading the some of the comments though...............

_/\_
Ade
Sat today

[Erin]

Thank you for posting this, Kokuu. I read it last night, and was so glad to see Ajahn Brahm writing about the need to ordain women. I don't normally read comments, but I did last night, and it was so disappointing to see how much resistance there is even among Tricycle readers, which I *assume* to be demographically majority westerners. (By which I guess I *assume* they would be more equality minded, which is a lame assumption on my part, I realize.)

Reading the comments that were in opposition to the ordination of women because it wasn't "by the book" enough.... It reminded me of a bunch of lawyers trying to subvert the principle of a law by arguing over where the comma was placed. Of course I guess the other side feels the same way about Ajahn Brahm, too. In any case, that argument was predictable.

What really kind of got me is how the idea of doing something that would help women, not just spiritually, but overall (issues of equality and how that ties into poverty, etc) was just point blank dismissed. Just kicked in passing. Like it was some kind of joke for Ajahn Brahm to have even brought it up. I thought it was the most important part of the whole argument, really.

[Myosha]

Hello,

Thank you for the moment.

If women want to lower themselves to the level of men - that's up to women.


Gassho,
Myosha sat today

[michaeljc]

I hope this is not a repeat - I don't see it mentioned above:

Zen Women: Beyond Tea Ladies, Iron Maidens and Macho Masters

I have read a few extracts and have heard good things about this book.

Sat 2-day

[Jundo]

I hope this is not a repeat - I don't see it mentioned above:

Zen Women: Beyond Tea Ladies, Iron Maidens and Macho Masters

I have read a few extracts and have heard good things about this book.

Sat 2-day

Thank you very much Michael. Yes, that is a good one, on our recommended list.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?5711-SUGGESTED-BOOK-LIST-for-TREELEAF-SANGHA

Another book ...

The Hidden Lamp: Stories from Twenty-Five Centuries of Awakened Women

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0861716590/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687442&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=086171475X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=03ZTSA2HSF2321AYD5HX

Another, although not just about Zenny women, is ...

Women of the Way: Discovering 2,500 Years of Buddhist Wisdom

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Way-Discovering-Buddhist-Wisdom/dp/0061146595/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422860624&sr=8-2&keywords=women+of+the+way

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kokuu]

Hi all

Yes, sad to read the comments although most seemed to come from a Theravadin man and I have noticed that Theravadins from Buddhist countries can tend to be quite conservative in their outlook. None of the arguments (such as changing one part of the vinaya causes the whole deck of cards to come tumbling down) was very convincing. In any case, now Buddhism has had contact with the west, many teachers are changing their attitude on this. It may well have happened anyway.

Tibetan Buddhism can also be very resistant to change so it is great to see HH Karmapa XVIIth proposing something very similar:

http://kagyuoffice.org/gyalwang-karmapa-makes-historic-announcement-on-restoring-nuns-ordination/

With respect to the books, I really like The Hidden Lamp and am very grateful that Zenshin Florence and all the contributors have made such an effort to reveal the amount we owe to female ancestors in the Zen tradition. Receiving the Marrow is next up on my reading list.

The meeting of Buddhism with feminism seems to be one of the great things about dharma coming west. Hopefully it will continue to shape the root traditions as well as our own flowering sanghas.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Kaishin]

Kokuu, you highlighted American Zen in your first post. I'm interested that you said American and not "Western" -- is patriarchy still a problem on the other side of the pond?

#sattoday

[Kokuu]

Kaishin

We don't have much of a Zen tradition in the UK (more Tibetan Buddhism and Theravada in line with our colonial past) and I am not too familiar with what happens in continental Europe (although do know that Catherine Genno Pages has a centre in Paris). So American Zen still remains the major case study for Zen in the west.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday