Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

[TracyF]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[chicanobudista]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

IMHO, it does raise a valid question. Why do zazen? Why do shikantaza? Are there "better" ways?

I think it's up to each individual to answer these questions for him/herself.

Yeah. But since this is a discussion forum, I would really like hear what folks think. Otherwise, it would be the shortest thread on the Internet. :mrgreen:

[chicanobudista]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

Soka Gakkai offers a similar message, at least as its initial attraction to new members ...
http://www.sgidc.com/diversity.html

Can Soto Zen beat that Cadillac and parking space!? :mrgreen:

[Jundo]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

Hi,

I split the "Peyote" part of the thread off on its own ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=639

Hey Keith,

This is much clearer now. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I apologize for being unclear. I am aware that different schools of meditation in Buddhism and out focus on mantras or the breath simply to "quiet the mind." For instance, the Kwan Um School teaches one to think "Clear Mind" on the in breath and "Don't Know" on the out breath. I know in Insight Meditation, some teachers teach just to focus on the sensation of the breath on the nostrils. And I've mentioned John Main's Christian Meditation where they think that Aramaic word on the in and out breaths in equal syllables - "Ma-ra (in breath) "na-tha" (out breath). As far as I've read and heard, they seem very clear that's these are just simple techniques to quiet the mind, to just focus on the mantra or breath, and not to induce some altered state. It seems to me very similar to counting the breaths.

Yes, all are good ways to quiet and focus the mind. So is counting the breath.

The reason that we don't recommend such practices "long term" in our way, and do not use a mantra or breath counting as the central practice except for beginners, is that we are trying to learn to be "present in the actual world" even as we quiet the mind. That is why we sit openly aware to the circumstance and place in which we are sitting. We may be staring at a wall, but the eyes and ears are open. Then, when we rise up from the Zafu, we are supposed to learn how to "access" that same stillness etc. even in returning to the world of sirens and taxi horns, crying babies, blaring news headlines and all the other craziness.

Some sects of Buddhism (and certainly many other types of religion or mysticism) chant to get to a wondrous place or realm outside this world we live in (seeing this world of ours as an illusion). On the other hand, some chant to ultimately live in this world while seeing it in new ways (which includes tasting some wondrous places beyond its superficial appearances and knowing that this world of ours is real ... and an illusion too!!). We are the latter type. It seems easier to do if, as your long term practice, you are learning to quiet the mind with the mind aware, the eyes open, sitting standing walking or otherwise just living.

It is really only a subtle difference in approach. We think that just doing mantra work, or counting the breaths, never takes the training wheels off the bike. That's just our approach and there is nothing inherently "wrong" with counting the breaths and such.

Gassho, Jundo

PS- Sorry for my confusion. Some schools of mystical meditation seem to be using Mantra meditation to "be one with god" and such. Now, assuming there is a god (we tend to leave that an open question in our Zen Practice), we are doing much the same I think. We are doing it by realizing that there is absolutely no place else to go to meet god. Here is a short quote I found on the objective of John Main's meditation technique ...

In Christian Meditation (published by the Benedictine Priory of Montreal, 1977) John Main explains the following concerning his teacher, Swami Satyananda: For the swami, the aim of meditation was the coming to awareness of the Spirit of the universe who dwells in our hearts, and he recited these verses from the Upanishads: "He contains all things, all works and desires and all perfumes and tastes. And he enfolds the whole universe and, in silence, is loving to all. This is the Spirit that is in my heart. This is Brahman." (p. 11) ...

It is clear, whatever the case may be, that Swami’s understanding of the goal of meditation coincides with the Christian concept of the goals of prayer and meditation as a means to conscious union with the Spirit of God. The parallel deepens when the Swami explains the general goal of his life as the restoration of the consciousness of the Kingdom of God among his fellow men.

http://www.johnmainprayer.com/history.htm

We are "One", they are "One" ... is that different? The Same? Are we "One with God" "One with the Universe"?? Please answer that for yourself, and with god or Brahman, while I enjoy this cup of tea. I see the face I need to see (maybe god's face) in my child's smile.

[will]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

I don't know. What's GOD spelled backwards= DOG. So maybe it's in Kvon's pooch. Kidding. :wink:

Do we know it's GOD. Can we say with any confidence "this is GOD" ? What if we're wrong? I'll leave that to someone else to decide.

G,W

[Dainin]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

Hi Jundo,

Thank you for the clear explanation of all the mantra meditation stuff. Makes sense to me. Much appreciated.


Hi Tracy,

I wasn't thinking about a Pantheist mindset as an intellectual construct. It's feeling the divine in Nature just as it is. No thinking. Just feeling/"knowing", whatever. Keith knows what I'm talkin' about.

Yup. Nice description.

[Dainin]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

Yeah. But since this is a discussion forum, I would really like hear what folks think. Otherwise, it would be the shortest thread on the Internet. :mrgreen:

Yeah, I guess you're right! :mrgreen:

[Skye]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

The reason that we don't recommend such practices "long term" in our way, and do not use a mantra or breath counting as the central practice except for beginners, is that we are trying to learn to be "present in the actual world" even as we quiet the mind. That is why we sit openly aware to the circumstance and place in which we are sitting. We may be staring at a wall, but the eyes and ears are open. Then, when we rise up from the Zafu, we are supposed to learn how to "access" that same stillness etc. even in returning to the world of sirens and taxi horns, crying babies, blaring news headlines and all the other craziness.

I've certainly started noticing this effect in my everyday life, for instance last night I was walking to the library and waiting at the crosswalk and had one of those moments of stillness, or being in the moment, or however you want to describe it. There was nothing particularly "special" about the moment or the view or anything else, I was just there and it felt.... happy isn't really the word for it, but very... it just was, and it was complete, and there was no need to analyze it. It felt quite strange at first but actually pretty damn good. Peaceful? Joyous? Content? Something like that.

Skye

[Jundo]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

I've certainly started noticing this effect in my everyday life, for instance last night I was walking to the library and waiting at the crosswalk and had one of those moments of stillness, or being in the moment, or however you want to describe it. There was nothing particularly "special" about the moment or the view or anything else, I was just there and it felt.... happy isn't really the word for it, but very... it just was, and it was complete, and there was no need to analyze it. It felt quite strange at first but actually pretty damn good. Peaceful? Joyous? Content? Something like that.

Skye

Something like that.

[will]

Re: Buddhism More Than Just Meditation?

about the moment or the view or anything else, I was just there and it felt.... happy isn't really the word for it, but very... it just was, and it was complete, and there was no need to analyze it. It felt quite strange at first but actually pretty damn good. Peaceful? Joyous? Content? Something like that.

I like to say "like home"

Gassho