No Seniors, No Juniors - Just People of No Rank

[Myosha]

Hello,

Distinctions are good fun. AS IF!?!


Gassho,
Myosha (; or is it?) sat today

[Jundo]

Hello,

The discriminating mind is a hard to tame beast.

When the Junior or Senior beasts were tamed, the Member beast was created.

A quantify out of the extinction of quantity is born when records are no longer kept about number of posts.

A date of no date would be created if members had no join date.

A faceless face could be created if pictures of individuals were not posted.

A nameless name would be created if users had no user name.

A nameless teacher would be created out of a teacher with a name.

A not #SatToday class would create a class from the classes of #SatToday and “not #SatToday”

People of no rank creating people of no rank…

Just saying.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

Lovely! Oh so easy to build another non-category, non-obstacle, non-problem in our mind!

The real distinctions and obstructions are all between the ears.

Ya know, if you went to a Japanese Zen monastery, you would find it so status conscious, aware of divisions and who is senior and junior, older (in ordination age) or younger than whom. This eliminating of distinctions really is such a western, yankee thing to do. This is not really a Zen or Buddhist thing we are doing at all, just our own democratic cultural imposition on modern Buddhism. Check out some of the rules that Dogen set out for junior behavior toward seniors at Eiheiji (Page 125 here)

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=XJHAOIzUv_QC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=seniority+in+a+zen+monastery&source=bl&ots=EmfOCT1OL2&sig=dgbR2drEb02U7NyOyvrF590lHkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DELDVLCAB4iS8QWomYGADA&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=set%20it%20down%20in%20a%20senior's%20room&f=false

Gee, now I wonder if we should put the rankings back, and then double the distinctions!

Nindo, I have been standing off from this discussion, however your suggestion to purge the membership list from presumed inactive members really bothers me. I have missed some of the older members who have not posted in several years, I wonder how they are doing, wonder if they are just sitting and watching from afar, having shared their thoughts in the past and letting the newer members tangle with the same issues addressed in the past. I just don't know but hope they are still there in the sidelines.

Hi Jim,

Nobody is talking about that! We are referring only to people who have not been around for a year or more and never made any posting. Most were just here for a look around.

I know many long term members who are watching from the sidelines, or cruise in and out as life brings them. We did not mean them.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[adrianbkelly]

Nindo, I have been standing off from this discussion, however your suggestion to purge the membership list from presumed inactive members really bothers me. I have missed some of the older members who have not posted in several years, I wonder how they are doing, wonder if they are just sitting and watching from afar, having shared their thoughts in the past and letting the newer members tangle with the same issues addressed in the past. I just don't know but hope they are still there in the sidelines. I would hope that if a purge was to occur it would be after Jundo posted are request to those "inactive" members asking them if they wish to be removed from the membership. If they do not respond fine, if they do wish to stay, that is their practice, we should not judge them based on the number of recent posts. I may be one of those "marked" for removal since I have posted less than 200 times since 2008. I may not post but I do check in to Treeleaf at least twice a day, largely unheard. The most important aspect of my relation to Treeleaf is not the forum but Jundo's teaching and sitting with all of you. I am not comfortable with computers and as a result miss out on a lot of things Treeleaf offers. Lets walk with caution on cleaning up our membership lists.

SAT TODAY

I agree with you Lorax. I struggle with social anxiety & go through periods where I am far too shy to post anything here, but am still sitting quietly at the back.

I think it would be a good idea to try to contact those that appear inactive before deleting accounts but, on the other hand, I don't know how much work that would involve?

_/\_
Ade
Sat today

[Josan]

I agree with you Lorax. I struggle with social anxiety & go through periods where I am far too shy to post anything here, but am still sitting quietly at the back.

I think it would be a good idea to try to contact those that appear inactive before deleting accounts but, on the other hand, I don't know how much work that would involve?

_/\_
Ade
Sat today

I feel the same as Ade and Lorax and this issue kept popping up during zazen this morning. For some (and this includes me), it is difficult to post as (a) everyone else seems more knowledgeable about zen, buddhism etc., (b) there is every chance that what you wish to post has been posted a gazillion times already and that you are feel that you are wasting peoples time, (c) Jundo reminds us not to post just for the sake of posting (which I agree with but it does put the handbrake on in regard to posts). Rather than use posts/non-posts are a criteria for removal, I would be happy to see Jundo's suggestion of time spent on the forum used.
Gassho,
David

sattoday

[Kokuu]

With respect to other members' concerns about deletion, I have also been thinking about this.

Perhaps the last login date is more useful that the number of posts? If someone hasn't logged in for a year then it seems more likely that they are inactive than if they haven't posted.

David, I wouldn't worry about posting the same question again. Chances are there are many new people who haven't seen it posted before and I don't think anyone minds answering something again if it helps someone out.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Josan]

Gassho Kokuu,

David

sattoday

[Jinyo]

With respect to other members' concerns about deletion, I have also been thinking about this.

Perhaps the last login date is more useful that the number of posts? If someone hasn't logged in for a year then it seems more likely that they are inactive than if they haven't posted.

David, I wouldn't worry about posting the same question again. Chances are there are many new people who haven't seen it posted before and I don't think anyone minds answering something again if it helps someone out.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

Yes - I agree Kokuu - on both counts.

Gassho

Willow

Sat Today

[RichardH]

It's nice to see the number of posts removed.. no need to be reminded of all that talking when 99 % of it is forgotten.

Gassho
Daizan

sitting shortly

[lorax]

Thanks Jundo,

SAT TODAY

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

Just to repeat and rest concerns: We were only talking about deleting folks with about Zero posts for over a year. Those folks have never even posted a greeting here, and it will be obvious that most have not even stopped in for a long period. Thus all should be people who just came to have a brief look.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Nindo]

Thank you for clarifying, Jundo.

Gassho,
Nindo
sattoday

[Jundo]

A little accident report ...

Hi Guys,

Due completely to the ambiguous way I yesterday asked our wizards the question "would it be possible to" as to the technical possibility if we were to do it, our always attentive and energetic technical experts went ahead and cleared our registrations of people who had less than 10 posts but had not even stopped in for one look here in more than one year. I was just inquiring into the technical possibility as something we could discuss, not thinking we would yet do it, but I actually think it a good thing that this accident happened. (My understanding is that there were about 600 people fitting such description gathered over many years).

Just to be clear now: Such people are --not-- those who were rather active here, but have gone quiet, stopping by to look in here once every few months even if not posting.

Rather, the deregistered people are folks who had only a handful of postings in a very short period, and then have not even come back here even once to look through the "sign in" parts of the forum. We are talking of people who tried out the place or Practice for a few weeks then vanished. Further, should any such people want to come back, they are always welcome of course. However, it is a good thing for them to contact me to be reactivated should someone eventually want to jump back in.

If you are worried about folks like Jim described ...

older members who have not posted in several years, I wonder how they are doing, wonder if they are just sitting and watching from afar

... those are not the folks whom I am talking about. Such folks as Jim describes are all still registered.

Thank you to those who keep this place running, and sorry about the miscommunication by my way of speaking. But I think it actually helpful.

Gassho, Jundo

PS - My wife is a long time Karate and Aikido Practioner in Japan and America. I asked her recently how many people they get over the years in the various Aikido Dojos who try the Practice for a few weeks, but then vanish never to be heard from again. She said their experience is about the same.

[Anshu Bryson]

I have long wondered how to introduce my karate students to zen practice - they are after all one and the same - but in the West this is not an easy relationship to convey. The manner I have chosen to encourage my students in this direction is by not charging a fee for uechi class, but instead by requiring them to perform community service in a role of their choice (and we periodically discuss this service). Needless to say, I do not have many students, but I do have very committed ones.

Dear Yugen,

As you are already aware, I also teach Karate free-of-charge to my students here in Jakarta; I love your idea of community service in place of training fees! This is something I might seriously look at implementing in my own dojo. The gift that keeps on giving!

Thanks again for your insight!

Gassho,

Bryson

sat today

[Ongen]

Hi Nindo,

[EDIT] it seems my post got delayed and lots of stuff already happened. I leave it here for future consideration anyway

It's useful to clear unused accounts from the database even for pure management reasons. I might suggest though that if we do so, perhaps it's good practise to send them an e-mail beforehand to let them know it will happen soon unless they log in.

Gassho

Ongen / Vincent
Sat today