Shobogenzo

[Anshu Bryson]

Dear Jundo,

Starting to read Shobogenzo has been a little daunting, just due to its size, so I have been taking random bites at it (Bendowa, Genjokoan, Zazengi, etc.); is that a valid approach, or should it be read through from start to finish?

Gassho,

Bryson

sat today

[Jundo]

Hi Bryson,

Well, he delivered those talks over many years. And, in fact, it may help to think of them like musical pieces, jazz records, more than anything else ... they can be listened to back to back, one by one or in small bites.

Here, by the way, is my usual advice when reading Dogen comes up ...

SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Dogen - A Love Supreme

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9332-SIT-A-LONG-with-JUNDO-Dogen-A-Love-Supreme

Some more detailed comments and pointers on the "How to Read Dogen" thread ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7765-How-to-Read-Dogen

... including about the various versions out there ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7765-How-to-Read-Dogen

Gassho, J

[Anshu Bryson]

Hi Bryson,

Well, he delivered those talks over many years. And, in fact, it may help to think of them like musical pieces, jazz records, more than anything else ... they can be listened to back to back, one by one or in small bites.

Here, by the way, is my usual advice when reading Dogen comes up ...

SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Dogen - A Love Supreme

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9332-SIT-A-LONG-with-JUNDO-Dogen-A-Love-Supreme

Some more detailed comments and pointers on the "How to Read Dogen" thread ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7765-How-to-Read-Dogen

... including about the various versions out there ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7765-How-to-Read-Dogen

Gassho, J

Hi Jundo,

Thank you for the direction!

I have Okumura Roshi's 'Realizing Genjokoan'; I might take your advice and warm up with that before diving back in...

Gassho,

Bryson

sat today

[Mp]

I have the Okumura Roshi's 'Realizing Genjokoan'; I might take your advice and warm up with that before diving back in...

Hello Anshu,

I too have this book and it is a great read. I enjoy Okumura's expression of the Dharma. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat today

[adrianbkelly]

Hi Bryson,
I can also recommend "Receiving the Marrow: Teachings on Dogen by Soto Zen Women Priests"; every chapter has a different teacher writing about an individual chapter of Shobogenzo. It's heavier going than "Realiizing Genjokoan" (which I love!), but I find it helps to get a foothold on Shobogenzo.

_/\_
Ade

Sat today

[Jundo]

Those are both wonderful books.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Meishin]

Those are both wonderful books.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Hi all,

Jundo what about Tanahashi and Levitt's "The Essential Dogen?"

Gassho
Meishin/John
Sat today

[Kokuu]

Meishin,

I bought The Essential Dogen for my Kindle by accident (well not exactly by accident but I thought it would be like Moon in a Dewdrop and contain entire fascicles and you can't get that book for Kindle) and am not fond of it. Although it brings together many of Dogen's teachings on the same subject you don't get the same poetic feel as when reading Shobogenzo. It is more like a Greatest Hits album with the bitty feel those have of pieces heard out of sequence rather than a full album which has the flavour and sequence it was meant to have. If you want something smaller than Shobogenzo to start with, I would recommend Moon in a Dewdrop which also has the advantage of having some Dogen pieces not in Shobogenzo such as Guidelines for Studying the Way (Gakudō Yōjin-shū) and Instructions for the Tenzo (Tenzo-Kyōkun).

Bryson,

I don't know if it helps but I am doing a little of both. I am reading through the entire Shobogenzo (currently stuck halfway through 22. Buddha Nature) but if I see mention of a fascicle further ahead mentioned in relation to a talk or event (e.g. the Ango chapter or talks mentioned during Ango or the Washington retreat) I go ahead and read that anyway. A lot of the most famous/important fascicles are pretty near the beginning anyway - Bendowa, Genjokoan, The Time Being, Mountain and Rivers Sutra, Valley Sounds Mountain Colours. I also read Fukanzazengi pretty much every month, although it is not really part of Shobogenzo (but included in the Kaz translation).


I really like Kaz Tanahashi's translation of Shobogenzo but one thing I find frustrating is that the English chapter names do not come with their Japanese equivalent. Often I will see a fascicle referred to somewhere by its Japanese name and have to go through the chapter on when each fascicle was written to find which English title it refers to. At present I am compiling a list of fascicles in alphabetical order by Japanese title with the corresponding English name and will post this in case anyone else will find it helpful.

Gassho
Kokuu, still confused by Dogen but with occasional flashes of understanding!
#sattoday

[Meishin]

Thanks Kokuu.

Gassho
Meishin/John
Sat Today

[Jundo]

Meishin,

I bought The Essential Dogen for my Kindle by accident (well not exactly by accident but I thought it would be like Moon in a Dewdrop and contain entire fascicles and you can't get that book for Kindle) and am not fond of it. Although it brings together many of Dogen's teachings on the same subject you don't get the same poetic feel as when reading Shobogenzo. It is more like a Greatest Hits album with the bitty feel those have of pieces heard out of sequence rather than a full album which has the flavour and sequence it was meant to have. If you want something smaller than Shobogenzo to start with, I would recommend Moon in a Dewdrop which also has the advantage of having some Dogen pieces not in Shobogenzo such as Guidelines for Studying the Way (Gakudō Yōjin-shū) and Instructions for the Tenzo (Tenzo-Kyōkun).

That was my experience too. I also recommend "Moon in a Dewdrop", as well as his Tanahashi Sensei's "Enlightenment Unfolds: The Essential Teachings of Zen Master Dogen" as containing good excerpts sufficient for most folks diving into Shobogenzo for the first time.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Yugen]

The Nishijima / Cross translation of Shobbogenzo is available online for free in pdf.

Kim's work Eihei Dogen: Mystical Realist is the best Dogen summary I have found and an excellent companion to reading fascicles. Combined with Okamura's book on Genjokoan you can't go wrong. Kim's book however is not light reading. I found the chapters on Dogen's life and Buddha Nature to be very helpful.

Deep bows
Yugen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Anshu Bryson]

Thanks Yugen as always for your direction

Yes, I have the Nishijima/Cross translation (Eihei Shingi, Zuimonki and others are also available free online; I have an ever-growing library!).

I see Wisdom Publications has Kim's book on Dogen in electronic copy (sooooooooo very difficult getting things by international mail here in Indonesia; last book I bought was Aitken's Mind of Clover. Retailed at USD14; cost me nearly 60 after postage and local import duty and took nearly a month to arrive! So I only get hard-copy books now if I can't get them electronically...); I will download it today!

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Gassho,

Anshu/Bryson (not two; not one? )

sat today

[Jundo]

Thanks Yugen as always for your direction

Yes, I have the Nishijima/Cross translation (Eihei Shingi, Zuimonki and others are also available free online; I have an ever-growing library!).

I see Wisdom Publications has Kim's book on Dogen in electronic copy (sooooooooo very difficult getting things by international mail here in Indonesia; last book I bought was Aitken's Mind of Clover. Retailed at USD14; cost me nearly 60 after postage and local import duty and took nearly a month to arrive! So I only get hard-copy books now if I can't get them electronically...); I will download it today!

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Gassho,

Anshu/Bryson (not two; not one? )

sat today

In my "How to Read Dogen" post I also mention a book by Taigen Leighton on Dogen's dance with the Lotus Sutra. Also a very good introduction to Dogen (and shorter and easier to read at a go than Dr. Kim's excellent two books, which are truly masterworks themselves).

Visions of Awakening Space and Time: Dogen and the Lotus Sutra (Paperback) by Taigen Dan Leighton (Author)

A paper by Taigen which is an abbreviation of some of the topics of that book is also available online for a quick look ...

https://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/nfile/2862

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Myosha]

Hello,

Thank you for the link.


Gassho,
Myosha sat today

[Jishin]

Hello,

THE TEACHINGS OF ZEN MASTER DOGEN

by Kazuaki & Gary Snyder Tanahashi

It Has excerpts from Moon in a Dewdrop and its audio version is read by Gary Snyder. Me likes it.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_