Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

[Eika]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

That is really what I like about Buddhism. There is no sin, only practice.

Linda

I really like this . . . thanks, Linda.

Terry wrote:
A spin-off thought - Is how we look at ourselves when we break precepts is indicative of how we look at ourselves and others when we/they make mistakes in general?

You are probably right, Terry.

Bill

[Dainin]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

I am reading a disturbing but excellent book, "Auschwitz: A New History" by Laurence Rees. In it, Toivi Blatt, who risked his life to escape Sobibor, is quoted. While I do not think that most of us would take part in the atrocities of a death camp, Blatt's quote offers a sober reminder of why we must consistently reflect on our own behaviors and motivations via our practice and the precepts.

Blatt states,

"People ask me, 'What did you learn?' and I think I'm only sure of one thing - nobody knows themselves. The nice person on the street, you ask him, 'Where is North Street?' and he goes with you half a block and shows you, and is nice and kind. That same person in a different situation could be the worst sadist. Nobody knows themselves. All of us could be good people or bad people in these [different] situations. Sometimes when somebody is really nice to me I find myself thinking, 'How will he be in Sobibor?'"

This reminds me of two well-known sayings: Socrates’ “The unexamined life is not worth living” and “There, but by the grace of God, go I.”

[Lynn]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Hi, I'm Lynn. I am one of the founding moms of Precepts Breakers Not So Anonymous.

You know, I learned the most important stuff about precepts from Achalanatha:

You will note that in his left hand he is holding a mala (buddhist rosary.) Sometimes this is a rope. Either way it symbolizes our willingness to bind ourselves with the precepts in order to find our true freedom.

Now, here's the trick: when you bind yourself too loosely, the rope falls to your feet, you create an action, and the next thing you know your feet get all tangled up, you fall head over asswards into the nearest ditch and you got to crawl/dig yourself out usually in some embarrasing way.

Alternatively, bind yourself too tightly and you become paralyzed of movement and you've probably hit the Xena nerve whereby you're cutting off the oxygen and blood to your brain and you will start to resemble some fairly fanatic types in the next 30 seconds. (oh how I love and miss Xena, Warrior Princess!!) Guilt of any kind really starts that noose effect second only to the impending Jukai ceremonies and the "I'm a worthless sot of an amoeba" yada that engenders.

The beauty is remembering always that the only one with the power to tighten up or loosen your rope is you. Just watch for the balance point. Should feel snug, but not too tight...like your favorite shoes.

So, dear Gregor, loosen up dood! We love you, man!!!

[Jun]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

You will note that in his left hand he is holding a mala (buddhist rosary.) Sometimes this is a rope. Either way it symbolizes our willingness to bind ourselves with the precepts in order to find our true freedom

.

Don't know where you got that from Lynn, but it's incorrect.

Fudõ Myõ-õ has never to my knowledge ever been depicted holding a nenju (mala).

As for the rope symbolising our binding ourselves, that is totally incorrect.

Fudõ Myõ-õ (Achalanatha) carries the kongõ kensaku (????) or vajra p??a in Sanskrit, which represents the love of Fudõ Myõ-õ for all sentient beings, by which he catches and uses the kongõ kensaku to bind the passions. The kongõ kensaku has at it's end the kongõ with which Fudõ catches and binds evil. The kongõ kensaku binds the four demons, and is represented in three stages with the example of the robber and the rope - 1) the robber is beaten with the kongõ (kai = the precepts), 2) he is tied with the rope (jõ = concentration), and 3) he is killed by the rope (e = wisdom).

The sword of wisdom is held in the right hand, representing wisdom and the Buddha Dharma, and is used to kill evil thought. The kongõ kensaku is held in the left hand and represents concentration and the human condition. Fudõ Myõ-õ is a protector and guardian of the Law (Buddha Dharma).

There is a form of Kannon called Fuk?kensaku Kannon who also carries the kongõ kensaku. The kongõ kensaku is not empty (fuk?) - that is, it binds the passions.

[Jun]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

That's one bad-ass Smurf!

Greg, My Goodest of Good Men, don't rely on Smurfs; they're not real. Your goodness, on the other hand, is.

Regards,

Harry.

LOL

[Gregor]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

. . .

[Ankai]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

I really don't feel like going into more detail, not really looking for that kind of help on this one. Just wanted to throw this out there along with it relates to Jukai and notion of vowing to adopt the precepts.

Just my take on it, G, but when I take the Precepts, I'm vowing to live them, not perfect them. I'll never get it all right all the time. But like all other things in the Dharma, the vows are about intent, about the journey... not the retense of having "arrived."
When I perfect the Precepts in my life, I won't need them any more. Until then, I have this wonderful guide I vowed to follow in my life to help me stay on track and maybe get there one day. But when I vow, when I take the precepts... that's the START of the journey, not the goal of it. And sometimes, I gotta expect the road to be bumpy. And, more often than not, I'll find it's because I let myself get distracted and either lost my place on the map or was too damned stubborn to stop and ask directions.
Hope that made sense the way I said it.

[Ankai]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Is a beer OK from time to time? No alcohol at all? Not even mouthwash?

Dude... if you're that desperate for a beer, have it! I think even the Buddha would rathr see you drink a Heineken than drink mouthwash!! EEEEEEEWWWWWW!
LOL :twisted:

[Gregor]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Kevin,

Funny stuff, lol. :lol:

[Lynn]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Fudõ Myõ-õ (Achalanatha) carries the kongõ kensaku (????) or vajra p??a in Sanskrit, which represents the love of Fudõ Myõ-õ for all sentient beings, by which he catches and uses the kongõ kensaku to bind the passions. The kongõ kensaku has at it's end the kongõ with which Fudõ catches and binds evil. The kongõ kensaku binds the four demons, and is represented in three stages with the example of the robber and the rope - 1) the robber is beaten with the kongõ (kai = the precepts), 2) he is tied with the rope (jõ = concentration), and 3) he is killed by the rope (e = wisdom).

The sword of wisdom is held in the right hand, representing wisdom and the Buddha Dharma, and is used to kill evil thought. The kongõ kensaku is held in the left hand and represents concentration and the human condition. Fudõ Myõ-õ is a protector and guardian of the Law (Buddha Dharma).

There is a form of Kannon called Fuk?kensaku Kannon who also carries the kongõ kensaku. The kongõ kensaku is not empty (fuk?) - that is, it binds the passions.

OK. Well, thank you. That's an interesting piece of iconographic information. I was told by several people that it was a mala so it's good to know what it "is." I guess I would extrapolate that the teaching I got isn't too far off the mark...it's just more practical and less tied into mythology. In other words, what greater love do we have than the offering of the precepts to help us learn how to be vigilant about restraining, catching, binding our "evil" (or, in other words, that which we do through body, speech and mind, which causes harm to ourselves or others) before it is let loose into the world? I would have to speak more with my old teachers to clarify these teachings and how they correlate with your own understanding.

Based on my above understanding, which may be flawed and full of wretched horrors untold in the land of the heretical, it tends to keep me, personally on the straight and narrow.

In Gassho~

Lynn

[Gregor]

. . . .

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[Jun]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

I was told by several people that it was a mala so it's good to know what it "is."

I would say that those several people haven't studied or know about Buddhist iconography, history, or practice.

I guess I would extrapolate that the teaching I got isn't too far off the mark...it's just more practical and less tied into mythology

.

In other words stripped of it's original meaning, and reinterpreted. The various icons of Buddhism are mythological. They are representative of certain teachings that were fleshed out and defined centuries ago.

I would have to speak more with my old teachers to clarify these teachings and how they correlate with your own understanding.

:roll:

[Jundo]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Hi Guys,

I like that about everyone here is saying something similar about the Precepts: they are promises and aspirations, moment by moment. Like rodeo riders, we seek not to fall off the horse. But, when we fall, we take our scrapes and broken bones, dust off, get back on the horse (hopefully, we still can), learn what is to be learned, repair what can be repaired, and try not to do it again.

Like that lasso of Fudo Myoo, if we cling too tightly to the reigns, or too loosely, well ... it is just as Lynn said in her lovely description.

Which leads me to the next topics ...

Jun said ...

The various icons of Buddhism are mythological. They are representative of certain teachings that were fleshed out and defined centuries ago.

This leads to the whole question of how we take these symbols and dieties, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of esoteric Buddhism when we encounter them in our Zen Practice.

Personally, I take these as symbols for aspects of human psychology (greed, anger, ignorance, love, empathy, etc.) and for characteristic of nature and our universe (such as its power, violence, growth and retreat, change etc.) and as symbols for all Buddhist teachings on these things. In centuries past, in and out of the Soto Zen school, some folks took them more literally as actual entities, some not. Dogen (surprisingly for a man of the 13th century who had been first trained in an esoteric school of Buddhism - Tendai Buddhism), seemed --most of the time-- to take them symbolically.

Yet, just because something is only "symbolic" does not mean that it is not real in a very real way. For example, for me "Kannon Bodhisattva" exists primarily as a symbol of Compassion. However, I know that Compassion truly exists in the universe, for there are real acts of Compassion all the time in our world ... So, to the extent there is Compassion as one potential in this universe, I believe there is truly a Kannon who stands as a symbol for that natural aspect of this universe! Whenever a sentient being exhibits Compassion, I believe that Kannon is right there!

Does that make sense? (As I said on another thread, if I die and go to Buddha Heaven, and find Kannon actually sitting there ... I will bow and apologize for not believing in him/her more literally).

But do we care if Fudo Myoo is holding a rope, a Mala or a set of fuzzy dice from my dashboard? I find it hard to do so. Although these symbols stand for teachings that, as Jun says, "were fleshed out and defined centuries ago", I am more flexible about how we can look at these things. As with the symbol of Jesus in Christianity, who comes in a variety of personalities (Warrior against Heathens Jesus, Gentle Jesus, Hippie "Jesus Christ Superstar" Jesus), I think there is room to "flesh out" these symbols in different ways.

The Teachings of the Buddha are Universal, Timeless ... yet many are subject to change for different times, cultures, situations and human needs. (Opinions like that are one of the reasons I have been twice booted off the conservative "E-Sangha").

Finally, Harry's comment ...

Are you making our sneaky little immoral, animal selves aswerable to your own highest ideals? Seems like a recipe for a bum gig, for discontent, for self loathing and the loathing of other selves.

Isn't brow-beating and wincing over broken, or shoddily held, precepts the sort of self indulgence and discontent that Buddhism is supposed to relieve? Give us a break, Bro.

I agree that this may work for our 'minor' falls off the rodeo horse ... a lie, a moment of anger, a bit too much drinking, sexual shenanigans or the like. But I am reminded of one of those terrible (yet wonderful for being so horrible) American TV shows I recently saw for the first time. It is called "Dexter", and is about a serial killer who is otherwise a really nice guy, and the charming and lovable "hero" of the story ...

http://www.sho.com/site/dexter/home.do

He basically offs somebody, then goes about his business as this really sweet guy. If somebody was using Zen Practice to excuse serial killing, well ... I think the Precepts do not stretch that far.

(I know, Greg, that you did not describe the exact nature of your falling down ... I take it that it was not serial killing). :evil:

Gassho, Jundo

PS- Within the next couple of days, I will start of series of about 3 talks on the "Sit-a-Long" on SEX SEX SEX!!!! Be sure to catch them.

[Jundo]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Hi Jundo,

Serial killing is sort of an extreme example, no?

There are some very real excesses that are being excused in Buddhism that we could (maybe should) discuss.

Regards and Happy St. Patrick's weekend to all fellow snakes & Heathens,

Harry.

Which did you have in mind (and how many of them will you be tempted to engage in during St. Patrick's weekend)? :?: :?: :?:

If they involve harm to yourself or others ... it is best to refrain.

Gassho, Jundo

[will]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

There are some very real excesses that are being excused in Buddhism that we could (maybe should) discuss.

Like What?

G,W