Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

[Gregor]

Guilty :evil:

Not even funny . . .

[louis]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

My remedy for breaking the precepts (especially due to anger):

1) Get some nice rugs.
2) Get an incontinent dog.

I am serious. Bill, I meant to offer this advice months ago when we were discussing anger.

[Kelly M.]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

My name is Kelly, and I am also a precept breaker.

I was actually just thinking about something along these lines today. But I try not to let it get to me. It adds spice to my life and is an undeniable part of my character.

My favourites are when I unintentionally break a precept (usually speech related ops: )... really badly... and all I can do is laugh at myself. Open mouth... insert foot.

How does that saying go? 'When on the zafu, watch the moment; when off the zafu, watch your mouth' ?

Cheers and Gassho,
Kelly

[Jundo]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Hi,

My name is Jundo and I am a Precepts breaker ...

I had a fight with my wife last night. You guys would not have been impressed. I think it was about hiding the winter underwear (no kidding). Mina said she would film it for next time, and I can post me in my "irate husband" mode.

The suggestion about the dog and rug ... superb!

Gassho, Jundo

[Gregor]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

. . .

[will]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Instead of just saying "I'm angry." It helps if you explain a bit more Greg. What happens when you get angry?

Gassho Will

[Gregor]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

. . .

[paige]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

I keep catching myself lying. Not just "No, that doesn't make your butt look fat" lies. But really stupid, pointless lies. Like "Oh shoot, I was going to bring those papers in today, but I left them on the desk in the hall." When I really left them on top of the TV. Why would I even lie about that? Makes no sense.

[will]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Well. It doesn't help to worry about it too much. You make a mistake, then you make a mistake.

Sorry. I don't get the post. You want to discuss upholding the precepts or you feel that you need advice? If you know your going to break a precept then, I guess, don't. Don't take it too serious. It seems this could lead to a "I'm not good enough for the precepts" attitude. Anyway, each person's gotta do it themselves for this one.

To me the precepts are upheld when your practicing. Understanding is a major by product of practice. As we practice more and more we become more aligned with the precepts.

Gassho

[Eika]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Maybe the precepts are meant to be a kind of koan. . . That the confusion they create in us is part of our off-the-mat Zen that helps us reconcile two conflicting worlds; the ideal and the real.

I can't live up to them, but I vow to live up to them. Much like the 4 vows . . .


A fellow precept breaker (especially when it comes to speech),

Bill

[Kelly M.]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

I also find that one of the great by-products of the precepts is that they force you to observe and learn about yourself. What do you define as unacceptable according to each one?

Is a beer OK from time to time? No alcohol at all? Not even mouthwash?
Does it matter if the papers are on the TV when I said the table? What about white lies that save someone's feelings? Or to manipulate someone into doing something you think is the right thing to do?
What is sexual misconduct?
Etc. Etc.

These are all simple example of the types of question that we really need to primarily answer ourselves (I think) and evaluate why we take the stand we take. And if we routinely break our standards, we have the opportunity to investigate why.

I would try not to berate yourself too much Greg. You are no worse a person just because you now can see your 'transgressions' in comparison to someone who would commit them blindly. I once heard a saying that went something like "Buddhism is the path to the relief of suffering... if you should find that path introducing suffering into your life, re-evaluate your practice". Greg is perfectly Greg. I think.

Gassho,
Kelly

[lindabeekeeper]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

I have taken the Precepts in the Tibetan tradition. I am serious about following them but often find myself breaking them (Especially speech--that seems like a hard one for me too.)

I believe that vowing to follow the Precepts means doing your very best not to break them. But of course we all will. The Precepts bring awareness to your actions. (e.g.,Whoops, I messed up on that action. Gee, telling the truth wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Is the alcohol in mouthwash truly against the Precepts? Is killing a mosquito that bites me OK?) Hopefully, practicing the Precepts will help you refine your actions over time. But it will always be PRACTICE.

That is really what I like about Buddhism. There is no sin, only practice.

BTW, I am looking forward to Jukai.
Linda

[Dainin]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

Another chronic precepts breaker here. The fact that I've gone through Jukai does not change this. However, it does serve as a good reminder of my vows and practice.

As a former practicing Catholic, I still harbor my share of Catholic guilt. In the past, I felt this strong need to go to confession every time I lusted or yelled at someone. But now, however badly I feel about breaking the precepts, I no longer beat myself up as I did in the past. A few things I like about Zen's attitude towards the precepts is that we are not expected to be perfect beings because of them, and that there are certainly times when we need to break them. Brad Warner made similar points in his very good article in the last issue of Shambhala Sun.

Another thing that has helped me is Jundo's simple description of Zen practice and the precepts: being as helpful and healthful as possible towards self and others, while realizing there is no difference between the two. Perhaps this wasn't a conscious decision on his part, but to me, this is an eloquent restatement of the Ethic of Reciprocity (i.e., The Golden Rule). I think the Golden Rule is the simplest and most elegant statement of how to live ethically, but it's certainly not easy to live it (and there are times, as with the precepts, when it is necessary to break it for the greater good), but it's still worth trying our best to live in this manner. As we tell children in school, as long as we're trying our best, we're in good shape.

[kalka2]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

My name is Terry, and I've been breaking the precepts for years.

This is a very interesting thread.

There is no "code of conduct" that can cover all possible situations. Not even the precepts can do this. For example, there is the precept not to kill, but every living being must kill in order to eat. How do we reconcile this? I think one of the outcomes of Practice is that we cultivate a more accurate awareness of what we are doing, as we are doing it. So, if you are going to break a precept, you do it with eyes wide open, fully aware of what you're doing, aware of the guilt you may or may not feel, and aware of the repercussions of breaking the precept.

The precepts create a foundation for us to discover right conduct for ourselves but, as we all know, "taking" the precepts doesn't guarantee right conduct.

A spin-off thought - Is how we look at ourselves when we break precepts is indicative of how we look at ourselves and others when we/they make mistakes in general?

[Shohei]

Re: Confessions of perpetual precept breaker

My name is Me (aka Dirk) and I am a precept breaker.
speech, anger and lies (to name a few) Definitely need more time on the cushion. As for dog + rugs... does cats + zafu & zabuton count? :P

Gassho
Dirk