Newbie's topic: on compassion, insects and so on.

[Idiel]

Hi every one.
This is my first question or topic. Excuse me if its off topic.
Sometimes I see small beings, like insects, in trouble. I do my best to help. But, when I see, for example, a moth trapped in a spider web, I hesitate. Cause I free the moth, I leave the spider without food. That's the situation. I would really appreciate your thoughts on the compassionate course of action.
Thanks!
Idiel

[Jundo]

Hi Idiel,

It is lovely that you are so aware of the creatures that you feel this way. Perhaps sometimes one intervenes to save life, sometimes one leaves alone because nature is nature and to save the moth may be to kill the spider. Sometimes we leave the insect, sometimes we move (like the slugs I find in our home, which I trap and carry outside when I can), sometimes we may even kill.

Questions like this actually come up from time to time, as our Sangha members deal with termites, mice in the pantry, bats in the the belfry. So, let me post again the thread on termites at Treeleaf, the Dalai Lama and the Mosquito.

Let me also mention that almost every Monastery in China, Korea, Japan and elsewhere owned vast agricultural lands on which they grew things. They had to kill insects and mice and the like on a large scale, either in the prevention of pests or as an inevitable act in the harvest itself. Buddhism has existed for 2500 years in primarily agricultural societies in India, China and other Asian countries. Killing pests and predators was a fact of life, much more than for most of us in modern urban and suburban areas. I live in the country here in Tsukuba, and the farmers kills predators ... from wild boars and badgers on down. Buddhism was, in actual practice, fairly tolerant of this necessity. That is why our precept is to "Avoid the Taking of Life", not a total (and ultimately impossible) avoidance of all killing.

Traditionally, Buddhism has made a distinction between sentient life and other insentient life forms. The border between "sentience" and "insentience" is, of course, hard to set precisely (and, in a larger sense, some teachers such as Master Dogen included even mountains and trees and roof tiles as "sentient life"), but we generally do not treat insects with the same weight as more self aware creatures. That does not mean, too, that we are not respectful of all life.

I have written in the past about how this issue came up at Treeleaf Japan, a group of all wooden buildings, when we had termites ...

We also faced this when Treeleaf Japan ... a completely wooden building (built without nails, just joined wood beams) ... was infested with termites ...

A Google search on the subject, and talking to some other Buddhist clergy in various traditions, turned up the fact that (as I suspected), infested wooden Buddhist temples will take countermeasures ... though sometimes followed by a memorial service or the like for the little lives taken (and although some claim not too, and that good chanting is enough to chase the bugs away ... I tried that, no luck.) ...

The following was also typical advice, and I gave it a try ...

In the area of prohibitions against killing, one laywoman asked, "What should we do if there are mice and termites at home?" Dharma Master Heng Lyu answered, "You first post a notice asking them to leave. Next, you use insect repellants to chase them out. Avoid insecticides because you want to avoid the karma of killing."

One layman asked, "How do you avoid harming living beings while mowing the lawn?"

Dharma Master Heng Lyu said, "You would first post a notice to let the small creatures know that it's best to move, then mow the lawn. While you're mowing the lawn, recite the Great Compassion Mantra at the same time."

Excerpted from the article, "The City of Ten Thousand Buddhas Holds First Transmission of the Lay Bodhisattva Precepts in the New Millenium", on page 49 of the October 2000 issue (volume 31, series 73) of the Vajra Bodhi Sea.

And, of course, this is the famous "Dalai Lama kills the Mosquito" video ...

I really feel the weight of having to kill those termites ... but somehow, whenever there is an earthquake and the heavy roof timbers start shaking over my family's heads ... I know it was necessary. That is the Koan.

Gassho, Jundo

[Myosha]

Hello,

Bang on . . . it depends.

Conditions show what to do.

Right action . . . always.

Salty Gassho,
Myosha sat today

P.S. Introduce yourself and allow love. M

[Kyotai]

Hello Idiel,

Welcome to treeleaf. I am new as well to this practice, been around here only a few years. When I began, I too was curious about how the precept on not killing even among the smallest animals translated in our practice. If you search under the search bar you will find many threads on this. I will only speak for myself, but I try to not harm animals or insects if I can avoid it. But, sometimes the grass needs to be cut, mouse traps need to be set to prevent infestations. No right or wrong answer perhaps. I would say it is up to each person as to how far they want to take it. I like to place an insect outside the window when I can..today it was -32 Celsius (-25f) with wind chill.....sometimes you cant win.

Gassho shawn
Sat today

[Cumminjd]

Jundo, that was a fantastic teaching. Nothing has ever made more sense the that (actual nothing is perfect sense to begin with). Thank you for this. Thank you for sharing that video too.

also thank you Idiel for the original post. This was a good lesson to learn today.

Gassho,
James
Sat Today

[Jishin]

Hi every one.
This is my first question or topic. Excuse me if its off topic.
Sometimes I see small beings, like insects, in trouble. I do my best to help. But, when I see, for example, a moth trapped in a spider web, I hesitate. Cause I free the moth, I leave the spider without food. That's the situation. I would really appreciate your thoughts on the compassionate course of action.
Thanks!
Idiel

Hello Idiel,

Sometimes animals such as dogs, chimpanzees , etc. are sacrificed by medicine men with the intent of learning more about mammals and helping humans in time of need. Who is to say what compassion is when the decision to turn off life sustaining machines at the Intensive Care Unit at a hospital? Or, to get get an abortion when the amniocentesis performed shows that the unborn child will surely be born with severe birth defects? All very complicated questions with no right or wrong answers. I think that INTENT is always very important in considering the appropriate course of action.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Hello Idiel ... wonderful question, wonderful response Jundo. The intent in our hearts is the key. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat today

[Meikyo]

Hi.

Good and very fundamental question.
Thanks for the responses.

It is my experience that if the Right Intention is there a great many problems can be solved by a informal Precept that goes something like "do what you can". Then you can often feel honestly in the heart either immediately after reaching the answer or after some time; "That was excessive" or "I'm not really being sincere about this am I?" Then you can adjust accordingly.

Gassho
Aske
#SAT TODAY!

[MikeTango]

Thank you Jundo for the teaching. Really great advices!! By the way, I read in a general book, “Buddhism for dummies” I think, about putting names to insects that are sharing the space with you, so it makes easier to you behave in a compassioned way.
Gassho
Miguel
#Sat Today

[Joyo]

The intent in our hearts is the key. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat today

Yes, wonderful. Doesn't this pretty much sum up all the precepts?

Compassion, and yet realizing the connection of all things.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jika]

Sorry, a question please.

You first post a notice...

In my country, it is not believed, that insects can read or understand the message of this notice (as well as I can't fly or jump multiple times as high as my body hight).
If my parents ask me to mow the lawn again, and I put little notices out before, they will be worried about my sanity, or laugh hard.

Is it really believed that if you politely write down "I am going to mow this lawn in 30 minutes. Please all beings that do not want a haircut (maybe the lawn does not like being cut?) or death get a move.", they know it?

Or is this a measure for the person who has to do the task, asking what can I do to feel better about it??

Thank you.
Gassho,
Danny
#sattoday

[Daiyo]

Yes, wonderful. Doesn't this pretty much sum up all the precepts?

Compassion, and yet realizing the connection of all things.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Hi Joyo.
I agree with you.

After having recently studied the precepts, the most solid conclusion I could come to is that a pure and honest intention to do good, to do no harm, is what matters most.

Gassho,
Walter

#SatToday

[Ongen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WomfhjyVM

Gassho

Ongen / Vincent

[Kyonin]

Hi all,

Being alive means taking lives, no way around it. Every time we scratch or brush our teeth we are committing mass murder of tiny tiny beings that we don't hear scream for their lives. Your gut bacteria kill billions of microorganisms all the time, 24/7. If you eat or drink, you are killing living beings.

What makes the difference is the attitude one takes towards this fact, and the reverence and gratitude we have towards the lives we take in order to be alive so we can be of service.

Endless circle.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jundo]

The recent readings and reflections for our Jukai preparations on the Precept to Avoid Taking life may be of help to Idiel the "newbie" (we are all, always "newbies" ) who posed the question ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12773-PRECEPTS-III-To-Refrain-From-Taking-Life

Gassho, Jundo


SatToday!