Thoughts and not thoughts…

[Jundo]

Just by chance (or Karma), this week's Book of Serenity Koan is a dance with this whole "Just This" don't mean "just only this", in the mirror mind "Finding" ain't by "searching" and so on.

Maybe after all the fat chewing in this thread, a Koan like so will be a touch clearer.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13110-BOOK-OF-EQUANIMITY-Case-49

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ernstguitar]

Hi Jundo,

thank you for that. Isn´t it also in the shinjinmei from Kanchi Sosan?
If you seek it, it is thousand miles away but if you stop having preferences it is here….

Gassho, Ernst
sat today

[michaeljc]

According to my experience we cannot fully convince ourselves of anything through rational deduction. I still remember exactly where I was during Zazen when the realisation came that even the worrying about not doing it right was fully part of it.

I feel that this practice is mostly about new appreciation of the very ordinary that is all around and within us. One Zen author described it as being the 'extra-ordinary'. Should we know we are to die next dawn. What are the things we treasure most? The second toe in on my left foot - when did I last consider what a wonderful job it has done throughout my life?

Some crazy thoughts

m

Sat 2-day

[Meikyo]

Hi.

For me it's good to remember that we can't really "fail" at Shikantaza as such. But in fact not being able to figure it out entirely while still in the dualistic mindset is somewhat to be expected I think. We are trying to unlearn and radically drop a lifetime of conditioning that is even necessary to employ in daily life sometimes still. Though we can learn to use it as a tool rather than being bound by it. So by Just Sitting radically our mundane worldview comes crashing down. It's not surprising that until the dust has settled and one can Wholly behind everything it can be a little messy. Rather like spring cleaning. At the halfway point it can easily look worse than when you started. But you just have to keep on cleaning. Trust the broom.

I hope you see what I mean. I could of course be totally wrong.

Gassho
Meikyo
#SAT TODAY!

[semc]

And I agree with Jundo. Sitting zazen is not boring. One just bores oneself because of our own expectations and desires. If I seek for illumination or ultimate inner peace, guess what? I will only get frustrated.

Shikantaza is about sitting with what is without worrying on what others think... and even better, without worrying on what one thinks.

We just sit and that's it.

Here, here.
I certainly don't find it boring; in fact, I look forward to sitting. I enjoy the 'nothing'. It's the one little part of my day where they are no goals, no expectations, nothing to achieve. It is what it is.
I don't always find it easy; some thoughts are more intrusive than others, my brain has this annoying tendency to remember completely inane memories from 10+ years ago that have zero relevance to anything going on in my life right now. And sometimes my cat attacks me when i'm sitting. That is a distraction. Often painful.

Gassho
Sarah
::SatToday

[michaeljc]

Here, here.
I certainly don't find it boring; in fact, I look forward to sitting. I enjoy the 'nothing'. It's the one little part of my day where they are no goals, no expectations, nothing to achieve. It is what it is.
I don't always find it easy; some thoughts are more intrusive than others, my brain has this annoying tendency to remember completely inane memories from 10+ years ago that have zero relevance to anything going on in my life right now. And sometimes my cat attacks me when i'm sitting. That is a distraction. Often painful.

Gassho
Sarah
::SatToday

Sarah - In my view the re-surfacing of old memories is a positive sign. If these are what I think they are, they will be a distinct feeling associated with memories that we have not felt for a very long time and had forgotten. Zazen is carrying us. Look into these feelings.

As I see it right now

m

Sat 2-day

[Myosha]

Hello,

Question:

How can you be bored doing something for the first time ; every time?


Gassho,
Myosha sat today

[dharmasponge]

I look forward to sitting too. I do however sometimes think "what on earth are you doing.....I mean seriously go back to bed..."!!



Sat today

[Kyonin]

Sarah - In my view the re-surfacing of old memories is a positive sign.

Hmm... it's nothing special, really.

Just sit and drop it all.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jakugan]

Hi guys,

I just sat today and the mind was a whirlwind. It threw a lot of memories, fantasies, plans and what not. All this while the baby upstairs cried, trucks of a nearby construction passed on the street and my cat demanded me to play ball.

At the last minutes of the session, there was this moment where it all made sense. There was no external noise, no thought tornado, no cat. There was just ONE.

Then the bell rang and I went for coffee.

And I agree with Jundo. Sitting zazen is not boring. One just bores oneself because of our own expectations and desires. If I seek for illumination or ultimate inner peace, guess what? I will only get frustrated.

Shikantaza is about sitting with what is without worrying on what others think... and even better, without worrying on what one thinks.

We just sit and that's it.

But then again, I could be totally wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

That last part hits the nail on the head for me. Sometimes I catch myself sitting down with the expectation that I have to experience something really mystical when I'm on the cushion, only to be frustrated by all these pesky thoughts that keep getting in the way!

Gassho,

Simon

Sat today.

[Rich]

Be content with just sitting. You can't solve the mystery with your thinking mind.

[Rich]

Sat today

[michaeljc]

Hmm... it's nothing special, really.

Just sit and drop it all.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

The emotion associated with such memories is what is occurring at that point in time. Why ‘drop it’? This suggests that it is something to be abandoned i.e. an undesirable diversion. I feel more comfortable with immersing into it. Nothing is superfluous.

Sharing – not lecturing

M

Sat 2-day

[Jundo]

The emotion associated with such memories is what is occurring at that point in time. Why ‘drop it’? This suggests that it is something to be abandoned i.e. an undesirable diversion. I feel more comfortable with immersing into it.

Sharing – not lecturing

M

Sat 2-day

If I had to describe my approach (if forced to the wall) to strong emotions, old painful memories and such which arise in Zazen, it would be that I allow, neither running toward or away. I do not grab on or stir up. Certainly, I do not wallow. If caught in a true howling storm of grief, anger, fear or the like (it sometimes happens to all of us), I breath through until the hurricane settles to a small rain or clear sky. If we wallow and ponder, it is like pouring gasoline ... and the small fire turns into a great burning.

Zazen is not psychanalysis, and the point is not to delve into old memories.

Now, that being said, there may be times when ... off the cushion, or even for a moment on the cushion ... one might look at the memory. I will give you one example: Once I was sitting Zazen and, out of the blue, a memory from 40 years before surfaced of what was likely a male baby sitter trying to get me to touch him sexually when I was about 6 or 7 years old. I had not thought about it in years and years, although sure it happened. It was the first time I realized that his "play" was attempted child abuse, and it was a shock. After a moment though, I offered Metta for the Sitter very briefly, and returned to sitting. Wisdom and Compassion seemed to put the incident in proper perspective.

Later, rising from the cushion, it may be fine to ponder such memories. However, even then, I advise bringing the Wisdom, Compassion and Equanimity of Zazen into one's 'after hours' pondering and reflecting too. It tends to show these things in a different light. That is so, not just for passing memories, but even for our deepest, most painful scars in life.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[michaeljc]

Thank you Jundo

This phenomena of old memories and the associated unique emotional feelings popping up has been very common within my sitting from time to time. I have found that by lightly immersing into the emotion they dissolve. These are not usually associated with traumatic events. They have their very own (often pleasant) aroma that were long forgotten. I don't make big of them. They come, I look, they go.

This Zazen is a very powerful practice, as I find it

m

Sat-a-moment-ago