Is the pope secretly a buddhist?

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  • Ongen
    Member
    • Jan 2014
    • 786

    Is the pope secretly a buddhist?

    I could not help seeing some Dogen shine through

    Pope Francis issued a blistering critique Monday of the Vatican bureaucracy that serves him, denouncing how some people lust for power at all costs, live hypocritical double lives and suffer from "spiritual Alzheimer's" that has made them forget they're supposed to be joyful men of God.


    Gassho

    Vincent

    Sat today


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  • Joyo

    #2
    He very well could be. Looking back, I think I was a Buddhist long before I even realized it, so anything is possible.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today

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    • Cumminjd
      Member
      • May 2013
      • 183

      #3
      Perhaps every Buddhist is The Pope?

      Gassho,
      James
      Sat Today

      Comment

      • Mp

        #4
        Originally posted by Cumminjd
        Perhaps every Buddhist is The Pope?

        Gassho,
        James
        Sat Today


        Gassho
        Shingen

        Sat Today

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        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 39065

          #5
          Well, there is quite a "Zen Buddhist Bureacracy" in Japan, Korea and China, where Buddhist institutions there and other places in Asia are "the Church", with many cliques and factions ... so maybe they do have much in common.



          Monks or priests, Catholic or Buddhist, are just people ... and among all the many good monks and priests who are there with good motives, there are other people with more worldly motives. It has been so in all religions throughout history.

          I will say that, in Japan, the individual temples are more independent of central control than in Korea, so there is generally less of a centralized bureaucracy here than there.

          But I am afraid that the Japanese Zen institutions, both Soto and Rinzai, have also been very political. As you may know from history, even the two "factions" of the Soto Zen Head Temples in Japan, Eiheiji (Dogen's monastery) and Sojiji (Keizan's monastery) barely spoke to each other ... and played all manner of political games ... over the centuries. I won't even begin to go into the rivalries between different schools of Buddhism as a whole. Fortunately, most of that was (usually) non-violent in a Buddhist way, but I mention it so as to not imply that religious politics is somehow a matter limited just to other religions. Human nature is human nature.

          Pages 82-84 here touches on the story ...

          Explores how Soto monks between the 13th and 16th centuries developed new forms of monastic organization and Zen instructions and new applications for Zen rituals within lay life; how these innovations helped shape rural society; and how remnants of them remain in the modern Soto school, now the lar


          It is all silly.

          Gassho, J
          SatToday!
          Last edited by Jundo; 12-23-2014, 06:19 AM.
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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          • Ongen
            Member
            • Jan 2014
            • 786

            #6
            Thanks Jundo this is something I keep on being unable to get my head around.

            James:
            Perhaps every Buddhist is The Pope?

            Haha yes!



            Gassho

            Vincent




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            • Kyonin
              Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
              • Oct 2010
              • 6739

              #7
              Hi all,

              There's a lot to say about Pope Francis and much of it is good. He is giving some fresh air to centuries of stagnation and he is moving people into making the Catholic church adapt to modern times and science.

              Criticizing bureaucracy seems like another little step forward in his plan to give Catholicism a better image.

              Not bad, in my humble opinion.

              Gassho,

              Kyonin
              #SatToday
              Hondō Kyōnin
              奔道 協忍

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              • Myosha
                Member
                • Mar 2013
                • 2974

                #8
                Hello,

                If Buddhism is a healing art; recognizing and removing suffering - then, yeah, HH has a chance.

                Thank you for the link.


                Gassho,
                Myosha sat today.
                Last edited by Myosha; 12-23-2014, 11:45 PM.
                "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

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                • Jishin
                  Member
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 4819

                  #9
                  I think a Buddhist practices the philosophy of enlightenment. If so, does he do it secretly? Beats me.

                  Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

                  Comment

                  • Risho
                    Member
                    • May 2010
                    • 3179

                    #10
                    I have a jaded view of religion. Whenever I see the Pope I sort of roll my eyes. I'm sure he can do good or give hope to others; I just don't subscribe to the notion of some hierarchical restriction to wisdom; well if you call what he's selling wisdom.. mwahahahah. That's just my humble opinion.

                    Gassho,

                    Risho
                    Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

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                    • RichardH
                      Member
                      • Nov 2011
                      • 2800

                      #11
                      Imagine a Christian seeing a Buddhist expressing some wisdom and compassion, and saying maybe he's secretly a Christian?

                      I didn't enter into Buddhist practice because Buddhism is the best, better than the rest. It was because there was a recognition that the Buddhist stream is in these bones, and that somehow it was like coming home. Somehow the Buddha's way is patterned like this brain. Maybe if things were different I would have chosen practice in a Christian contemplative stream. I've met Christians no less wise than the wisest Buddhists.

                      If I think being a Buddhist means raising it above other traditions then what have I become?

                      Merry Christmas

                      Gassho
                      Daizan
                      Last edited by RichardH; 12-24-2014, 09:25 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Byokan
                        Treeleaf Unsui
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 4269

                        #12
                        Hi All,

                        Daizan has a very good point. We should definitely avoid that kind of divisive thinking.

                        But I don’t think Vincent meant to compare in that way, at least that’s not how I read the original post. I took it as just pointing out the similarities between what the Pope said, and Buddhist teaching. For instance the part about gossip threatening “the harmony of the body,” sounds like the precept we just studied about gossip harming the Sangha. These truths are universal; it’s about human nature.

                        Gassho
                        Lisa
                        sat today
                        展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
                        Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

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                        • Ongen
                          Member
                          • Jan 2014
                          • 786

                          #13
                          Is the pope secretly a buddhist?

                          Hi all,

                          Daizan, of course you are correct! But that was not my point.

                          Lisa explained it well, I was just happy to hear some - in my eyes - sensible and honest words from an institution (not talking about the faith here) that has been about self-enrichment and politics mostly for maybe as long as it exists.

                          I am glad there is someone at the head of the catholic church now who can maybe bring back to the vatican some of the values their faith stands for and many of which we share with them in buddhism too.

                          This pope is doing a lot for mutual understanding between faiths and practises already, but this just took it a step further and I bow to that

                          Gassho

                          Vincent
                          Who has to edit every post because he forgot to write Sat Today

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                          • RichardH
                            Member
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 2800

                            #14
                            Thank you Lisa and Vincent. I realize you were speaking innocently and not in a sectarian way, Vincent. I guess I was more concerned about how it would be picked up and carried. Living in an interfaith (and interfaith/no faith) home and community, I'm a bit sensitive about the issue. While not believing in mushing things together in a new age fashion, Buddhism is Buddhism and Christianity is Christianity, I feel more and more the nameless heart from which they both spring.

                            Gassho

                            Daizan

                            sat yesterday forgot to post
                            sitting after presents and breakfast soon.

                            Comment

                            • bayamo
                              Member
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 411

                              #15
                              In Pope Francis' Christmas message, read today at the end of Mass, he said 'We need silence to hear the voice of Love.'
                              Pretty cool if you ask me...

                              Oh yeah, if I didn't have inner peace, I'd completely go psycho on all you guys, all the time. Carl Carlson
                              #SatToday
                              Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
                              Carl Carlson

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