No 'I' ... No 'Know'...

[dharmasponge]

No.

Gassho, Jishin

#SatToday

Try harder then

Gassho, Tony

[dharmasponge]

My advice would be to think about this as little as possible and place more emphasis on practice and then living. Understanding is overrated compared to sitting then acting and is the main reason for setting apart heaven and earth. Basically, you are not going to understand practice except by doing it. Thinking is more likely than not to be a hindrance rather than a help.

Thanks Kokuu for a clearly thought through response...much more helpful. _/|\_

Not to think? Not use the function of mind to understand the nature of things and in particular the illusory way 'I/you' appear to my mind? Really?

I do practice every and have for many many years - though new to Soto and Dogen.

[Daiyo]

Hi Tony, in my very short experience, I've found out that the more I want to understand things, the less I do.
On the other side, sometimes while not trying to understand anything, something appears suddenly clear.
But as soon as I focus on it, to describe it, or put it in words, it vanishes. It's like trying to grab the water.

So I've decided not to try understanding anymore, out of lazyness, clearly not out of enlightenment.
I just gave up. And so far I'm doing fairly good, I guess.

Just my opinion, anyway.

Gassho,
Walter.

#SatToday

[dharmasponge]

Thanks Walter

[Jundo]

Such wise and helpful words from several folks in this thread. Lovely.

Gassho, J

[Kokuu]

Not to think? Not use the function of mind to understand the nature of things and in particular the illusory way 'I/you' appear to my mind? Really?

I do practice every and have for many many years - though new to Soto and Dogen.

Sorry, Tony, I didn't in any way mean to imply that your practice was lacking. You come across as someone with a dedicated practice.

Using the mind is not a terrible thing but setting aside analysis for a time and just sitting and living can make both practice and life much simpler.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sat today

[Peacemouse]

Hi Tony, in my very short experience, I've found out that the more I want to understand things, the less I do.
On the other side, sometimes while not trying to understand anything, something appears suddenly clear.
But as soon as I focus on it, to describe it, or put it in words, it vanishes. It's like trying to grab the water.

So I've decided not to try understanding anymore, out of lazyness, clearly not out of enlightenment.
I just gave up. And so far I'm doing fairly good, I guess.

Just my opinion, anyway.

Gassho,
Walter.

#SatToday

Hey Walter,

In response to the bolded - How would you know?

I think that it's a natural human tendency to become anxious when confused. Have you resolved that natural anxiety or have you simply disowned it?

This is a question I have because I tend toward anxiety in general and often find myself analyzing. Zazen provides a great deal of understanding about this for me as it provokes a realization that I'm often anxious because I'm identified with a great many not-typically-challenged thoughts. This is possibly a boon. On one hand, it's scary to look at anxiety or confusion, but on the other hand, who questions an identification with good feelings or feelings of security?

Thoughts on this?

Chet
Sat today

[Oheso]

Rudolf Arnheim said "All perception involves the desire to understand." very hard for me to disconnect the two and how to stop perceiving? -generating perceiver and desirer -not always understander.

gassho, O, who sat today

[Daitetsu]

Hi Chet,

Have any of you guys noticed that sometimes at random, while not in zazen, duality can also drop off?

Several times and actually this brought me to Zen in the first place.
The first time it happend it felt like remembering something I had forgotten for a long time. Ordinary and extraordinary at the same time, strange to describe.
I try not to analyze this, as this is beyond analyzing and/or words.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day

[Daiyo]

Hey Walter,

In response to the bolded - How would you know?

I think that it's a natural human tendency to become anxious when confused. Have you resolved that natural anxiety or have you simply disowned it?

This is a question I have because I tend toward anxiety in general and often find myself analyzing. Zazen provides a great deal of understanding about this for me as it provokes a realization that I'm often anxious because I'm identified with a great many not-typically-challenged thoughts. This is possibly a boon. On one hand, it's scary to look at anxiety or confusion, but on the other hand, who questions an identification with good feelings or feelings of security?

Thoughts on this?

Chet
Sat today

Hi Chet.

I actually don't know.
I think that I've disowned the anxiety because I am very lazy to analyze this and that.

But as most times the answer is "just sit", don't analyze and don't chase words, I started doing it.
I remember the Fukanzazengi where Dogen says something like it's not about being smart or stupid. And because I am pretty stupid, I just try to drop the anxiety to understand.

In a few months I've learned to drop the desire for this and that knowledge. What's next?
More sitting, and trying to practise anytime.

Sorry if my answer was not interesting, I'm full of ignorance.

Gassho,
Walter.

#SatToday

[Byokan]

In a few months I've learned to drop the desire for this and that knowledge. What's next?
More sitting, and trying to practise anytime.


Sorry if my answer was not interesting, I'm full of ignorance.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jundo]

Joyo posted this gift from Suzuki Roshi on another thread, but this is a good place too ... when one risks falling into analysis of experience and philosophical discussion, as well as the chase after some special experience (which chase is precisely what hides the experience) ... like the donkey trying to get the carrot ...

or the Chinese fingertrap, by which the more one struggles and pulls the tighter one is caught ... only fully relaxing and yielding the way to freedom ...

Here's another little gem...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6vCVdXBoN8

Worth to listen and listen and listen again.

Gassho, Jundo

Sattoday

[RichardH]

Haven't been drawn to this thread because the question whether there is "I" or "no I" or "nonduality" is something I don't really care about right now. There is just an ordinary sense of self and place. Usually the dog has to go out in the morning and comes galloping by to use the sliding door behind where I sit. There are kitchen noises. This ordinariness is already "non-dual" so that is a non-issue. That leaves ordinary issues. Putting hands where hands go , exploring creative ideas and so on. Enjoying things , dealing with things. There was a story ( was it Trungpa who told it?) about a kid who left out the back door of his house and went on a long journey until he arrived at the front door.

Gassho
Daizan
Sat Today