Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Jinyo]

Willow,

Forgive the delay in responding as I had to give your questions some thought.

For me it doesn't really matter if it is words or a symbol. I just feel that sitting should done for its own sake and not to achieve any kind of recognition or status. We are all adults here and I'd much rather there be a dialogue about whether folks are sitting rather than something that amounts to a status update.

If over the period of a week one finds that they are posting more than they are sitting, that might indicate that one's practice is out of balance. So, the obvious step would be to talk to Jundo or one of the Unsui about the issue. And if the Unsui or Jundo feels that a particular person is not sitting enough then the concerns should be addressed to that person. To make all sangha members with very different circumstances have to use a blanket response to an issue seems disconnected and I honestly don't think it will lead folks who post too much to post any less.

I have pledged to Jundo that I will give the idea a fair trial this month and that's what I plan to do. I think it's wonderful that this has helped your practice, I really do. But I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone. We'll just see how it goes.

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today.

Thank you for your reply Dosho - I totally understand and respect your view.

For me - the idea was a wake up call - but I do understand that not everyone will feel that way.

I don't feel comfortable with writing 'sat today' because that does have a certain ring to it (for me) which is why I asked the question. I'm not sure why the symbol feels better to my perceptions - perhaps there's something inclusive, interconnecting and embracing about that circle - expressing what sitting is about rather than a statement of words.

Anyway - enough interpretations and words,

thank you all for your practice,

Gassho

Willow

[Kyonin]

Dear Kyonin,
the title of the thread says "Sangha Discussion", not "Unanimous Sangha Agreement". It is important that people feel OK with stating concerns or discomfort, even if 99% of the group doesn't have any. I'm sure it is not your intention to kill the discussion, but we have to be careful with such things.

Metta & bows,
Nindo

stbwaptss

Hi Nindo,

Indeed, it was not my intention to end the conversation. Just tried to explain there is no dark motive behind all this. At least in my point of view.

Thanks for the reminder.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Dosho]

Hi Dosho - in relation to what you express (I understand your reservations) the reason I suggested earlier in the thread the use of the symbol is because words can bring up all sorts of reactions in people.

I'm curious - would you still feel like you were back in grade school if you used a symbol instead of words? Would there be any 'I' in this expression at all?

Willow,

Forgive the delay in responding as I had to give your questions some thought.

For me it doesn't really matter if it is words or a symbol. I just feel that sitting should done for its own sake and not to achieve any kind of recognition or status. We are all adults here and I'd much rather there be a dialogue about whether folks are sitting rather than something that amounts to a status update.

If over the period of a week one finds that they are posting more than they are sitting, that might indicate that one's practice is out of balance. So, the obvious step would be to talk to Jundo or one of the Unsui about the issue. And if the Unsui or Jundo feels that a particular person is not sitting enough then the concerns should be addressed to that person. To make all sangha members with very different circumstances have to use a blanket response to an issue seems disconnected and I honestly don't think it will lead folks who post too much to post any less.

I have pledged to Jundo that I will give the idea a fair trial this month and that's what I plan to do. I think it's wonderful that this has helped your practice, I really do. But I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone. We'll just see how it goes.

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today.

[Biko]

When I read the first post from Jundo proposing this, my first reaction was mild anger. Then I let that rise, observed it and allowed it to dissipate, then examined why I felt angry. It is because I personally have an issue with authority. Or rather, the ego that I allow to take control has an issue with authority. But guess what? For two days now this rule has caused me to sit my ass down and shut the hell up and for that I am grateful. It is difficult being a solitary Zen practitioner because you only have your ego to answer to, and when we are working on the destruction of the ego and all of it's little stories, it will do everything in it's power to not be seen.If you consider Jundo your teacher, then trust him.

Sat today!

Gassho,
Jeffrey

[Oheso]

I keep wanting to stay out of this thread but the level of miscommunication going back and forth from all sides is really astounding to me. I just don't see how this has anything at all to do with "some division in the individual perceptions of just what practice at Treeleaf involves." I think this pertains to the solid-est point of our shared practice, our common ground and basis in the practice of zazen. we're not debating that, how could we?

what we are discussing was posted under the title "Sangha Discussion" and feelings were solicited. the ensuing reminds me a bit of a skeet-shoot. my own feelings are that nothing substantial has changed at all, but perhaps subtly and attitudinally. it just seems a little unfriendly and clique-ish. kind of stingy with the water at our water stand down by the riverside. ya gotta sit daily to get in the door of this establishment, its a level of dedication thing, Jove nods to Jove, as one of those Trancendentalists said. that's all.

mi ultima palabra, promise

gassho, O

today, I sat

[lorax]

Aloha Nindo, I am not sure where you find in Kyonin's post any intended or unintentional effect of killing the discussion. There does seem to be some division in individual perceptions of just what practice at Treeleaf involves. Some seem to look to the various venues of the forum as the Sangha's core, while others, place a higher importance on zazen and the dharma teachings. The suggestion of Jundo to sit before posting and note SAT TODAY on our signature line seems to have stimulated a discussion on the basic function of Treeleaf. Some of the posts will make us uncomfortable depending on our view, however that's great since this discussion is forcing us to examine our personal practice as well as the practice of other members of Treeleaf in ways we have not addressed before. Not sure just where this will all go but the important thing is not to take anything personally.

Take care

Jim (SAT TODAY)

Hi guys,

It blows my mind how this topic has provoked such a reaction.

Dear Kyonin,
the title of the thread says "Sangha Discussion", not "Unanimous Sangha Agreement". It is important that people feel OK with stating concerns or discomfort, even if 99% of the group doesn't have any. I'm sure it is not your intention to kill the discussion, but we have to be careful with such things.

Metta & bows,
Nindo

stbwaptss

[Shinzan]

_/\_ Shinzan

As Jundo said, go for it! There are actually two groups that sit before I do so you should see if their times match up, but if they don't please sit when you are able and see if folks can join you!

Gassho,
Dosho

The thing referred to as "me" positioned my body just so in the infinite space called time.

Thank you Jundo and Dosho. The time I would have the group sit in the morning would fall in between the others. It would look something like this. (The times I have listed are based on my time zone which is MST)

03:30 AM - 04:00 AM Morning Zazen, Shokai & Myoku
04:45 AM - 05:15 AM Morning Zazen, Shugen & Daizan
06:00 AM - 06:30 AM Morning Zazen, Bobby
07:00 AM - 07:30 AM Morning Zazen, Dosho

I am going to start opening a group sit that will probably begin this Monday 11/10/2014. It will be 30mins and start at 6am MST. Anyone who may want to join please feel welcome. I will do another post before the start date to confirm this is when it will begin.

Gassho
Bobby
Sat Today

[Dosho]

This is actually something I have been thinking about. I sit with Dosho's group sittings in the evening but tend to not be able to make many of Dosho's group sittings in the morning because of when my son wakes up, so I tend to sit earlier. I was thinking about asking if it would be ok to open a group sitting in the mornings when I sit to see if anyone wants to jump in.

As Jundo said, go for it! There are actually two groups that sit before I do so you should see if their times match up, but if they don't please sit when you are able and see if folks can join you!

Gassho,
Dosho

The thing referred to as "me" positioned my body just so in the infinite space called time.

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo,

This is actually something I have been thinking about. I sit with Dosho's group sittings in the evening but tend to not be able to make many of Dosho's group sittings in the morning because of when my son wakes up, so I tend to sit earlier. I was thinking about asking if it would be ok to open a group sitting in the mornings when I sit to see if anyone wants to jump in.

Gassho
Bobby
Sat Today

Go for it!

Gassho, Jundo

Sat Today

Actually, our next plan is to have more and more informal Hangout sittings run by all of you, in all time zones and locations. Anybody in Treeleaf can just start and schedule sittings and invite other members to drop in to sit. We can show you how.

Of course, it would be great to avoid overlap of times, but wouldn't it be great if we could cover much of the week and many many time zones with all kinds of live sittings? Anybody, if you would be interested in hosting such a group, please do!

Hi Jundo,

This is actually something I have been thinking about. I sit with Dosho's group sittings in the evening but tend to not be able to make many of Dosho's group sittings in the morning because of when my son wakes up, so I tend to sit earlier. I was thinking about asking if it would be ok to open a group sitting in the mornings when I sit to see if anyone wants to jump in.

Gassho
Bobby
Sat Today

[Dosho]

"Sat today". There is no "I" in sitting.

Sat (which is only relative to whether there is gravity or not if you want to get picky).

Gassho,
Dosho

[Jundo]

Gassho,
Dosho

I sat today.

"Sat today". There is no "I" in sitting.

(Actually, there is no "today, tomorrow or yesterday, beginning or end" in sitting either ... but one must sit today to realize such! )

Gassho, J

Sat Today!

I feel a bit shy about posting that I "sat today" However, I look at that and ask myself why do I feel shy? It is all part of the journey, learning, growing.

Posting if we sat today is a way we can support each other, and focus on our practice. I think it's a fine idea.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today