Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Dosho]

Just a note.... having sat with a few Theravadin and Zen groups, it does seem that Zen attracts more feisty independent minded people. That feistiness is maybe a good soil? But this is just going on personal observation.

I think there may be much truth to this as I agree that it is fertile soil. Nothing wrong with some debate and I think folks are just being honest with their first reactions. As long as it doesn't turn into personal attacks, I think it's just fine and healthy to vent a little.

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today

[Dosho]

Hi Dosho,

I totally agree that this is not meant for achieving some kind of recognition or status.

But, first off, I have to ask what kind of "recognition or status" one gets from posting "Sat Today"?

Very little status I would say. I was not implying it was a badge.

I have tried to answer members' questions about my disagreement with this idea, but I will now cease all complaint and get on board with the trial!

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today

[RichardH]

Just updated the signature with the auto-sat . So. if sitting has been missed for some reason I'll say not sat yet, but that will be evident in the increased defensiveness and emotionalism of the post

Just a note.... having sat with a few Theravadin and Zen groups, it does seem that Zen attracts more feisty independent minded people. That feistiness is maybe a good soil? But this is just going on personal observation.

Gassho
Daizan

[Jishin]

Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

Love it Jishin!! In fact, you posted this quote awhile ago and I copied and pasted it to my google + collection of Zen teachings and quotes cuz ah, I can get defensive

Gassho,
Joyo

sat today

Cool Joyo. I think I coined the one liner and my wife uses it (when talking to me) on occasion.

Gassho, Jishin

Sat Today

[Ryumon]

Am i the only one that this symbol freaks out ? It looks like a smiley face, without the face !

Arrrgh !

Gassho,

Ugrok, who put his buttocks on a zafu today.

Yes, that must be the original face, that Dogen discusses. :-)

Gassho,

Kirk

#SatTodayInDoctorsWaitingRoom

[Ugrok]

Am i the only one that this symbol freaks out ? It looks like a smiley face, without the face !

Arrrgh !

Gassho,

Ugrok, who put his buttocks on a zafu today.

[Ryumon]

Wow, I'm surprised that this simple request is so divisive. I think Jundo is simply trying, in a subtle way, to nudge us to sit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gassho,

Kirk

#Didn'tSitYetTodayOnMyWayOutToADoctorsAppointmentW illSitInWaitingRoom

[Jundo]

sat twice today, chanted heart sutra in japanese and bowed 15 times <--- all not true, just to show how it feels for me ... you get the point

Actually, my above post has a serious point:

If we were asking folks to post like this, showing in detail their effort and score, I think there would be a problem with bragging and competitiveness. e,g, ...

"I sat twice today, 50 minutes each, recited the Heart Sutra 5 times, did 1080 bows, did not have a lustful thought, beat myself with a Kyosaku stick " ...

... then we might get folks trying to show off a bit.

However, in the simplicity of "SAT TODAY!", there is no question of long sat or short, 5 minutes or 5 hours, 1 time or 10 times, or anything else. All is just "SAT TODAY!", the great equalizer.

"SAT TODAY!" holds all, and the rest of the universe too.

So, I think that "SAT TODAY!" actually prevents pride, bragging, competitiveness and such. No?

Gassho, J

SAT TODAY!

[Jundo]

sat twice today, chanted heart sutra in japanese and bowed 15 times <--- all not true, just to show how it feels for me ... you get the point

Too much information!



Gassho, J

Sat Today!

PS - Another Dharma the Cat ...

[Myoku]

Hmm, there more his settles in my mind the more it feels not right to me, I'm much with Dosho in this, however it might be just me, usually I not say much about what I did or not did.
Gassho
Myoku
sat twice today, chanted heart sutra in japanese and bowed 15 times <--- all not true, just to show how it feels for me ... you get the point

[Jundo]

For me it doesn't really matter if it is words or a symbol. I just feel that sitting should done for its own sake and not to achieve any kind of recognition or status. We are all adults here and I'd much rather there be a dialogue about .

Hi Dosho,

I totally agree that this is not meant for achieving some kind of recognition or status.

But, first off, I have to ask what kind of "recognition or status" one gets from posting "Sat Today"? Sounds like pretty low status, even within our group. Kind of like that "Good Attendance" grade one used to get in Junior High School. Reminds me of this Dharma the Cat cartoon ...



But beyond that, you know that actually in any Zen Monastery in China or Korea or Japan there is an element of "group pressure" to schlep off to each Sitting and Ceremony? How often do you think a monk things "Well, if nobody were watching, I would stay in bed a couple more hours ... but better get into the Zendo with everyone else" Heck, there, good chance some senior monk will come hit you with a stick unless you get out of bed (save in case of illness or the like, of course). It is not only peer pressure to motivate oneself, but also the desire to help others. Tomorrow, for our Zazenkai, I have to get in the car 30 minutes earlier, drive down to downtown Tsukuba, pick up a person who wants to try Zazen, bring him back afterwards ... and get the Hangout running for all you guys who are joining me ...

Frankly, on a Saturday morning ... I would rather stay in bed.

Gassho, J

Sat Today!

No need to be defensive if there is no need to be defensive.

Gassho, Jishin

Sat Today

Love it Jishin!! In fact, you posted this quote awhile ago and I copied and pasted it to my google + collection of Zen teachings and quotes cuz ah, I can get defensive

Gassho,
Joyo

sat today

[Jishin]

No need to be defensive if there is no need to be defensive.

Gassho, Jishin

Sat Today

[Anshu Bryson]

For me, there is nothing too deep about this issue. I treat this 'place' as if it were a bricks-and-mortar building. If we were 'in' a Zendo, there would be no 'not sitting'. There would only be 'sitting'. We wouldn't come to the Zendo, have a chat as we are doing here, and then go home without sitting. We would likely be sitting (and we'd be 'seen' to be sitting by our teacher), then going home. And perhaps without the chat.

I see this as a place of training. Any training requires a feedback loop in order that the teacher can gauge their students' progress. If this is the chosen method of getting that feedback, I am happy to comply. If I had to fill out a log of all of my sitting times and submit it by the first Tuesday of each month, I'd do that.

PS, I am not saying here that anyone else should feel the same way, I am just offering a perspective. Put yourself 'in' the Zendo. What would your teacher's expectation be if you were 'in the room' with him/her? What is the practice of the Sangha in that 'live' situation? What would your own expectations be of your practice?

I want to sit, I want my teacher to want me to sit, to encourage me to sit. I would expect that a teacher would require me to sit before engaging in any other activity. I don't see the difference in the 'virtual' building.

All that said, the '#sattoday' might well be a bit superficial; there may well be a better way to do this. For the moment, I am just trying to 'embrace all conditions' and keep a lid on the possible arising of any unnecessary personal Dukkha...!

Gassho,

Bryson (and yes, I did sit this morning)

[Byokan]

Hi All,

I keep feeling drawn back here as well. Please excuse my too many words, but I'm fascinated:

What is Jundo’s motivation in asking us to do this?
How will it change things at Treeleaf?
Will I be judged unfairly?
Will this bring an unwelcome sense of competition?
Will I lose my Sangha if I don’t sit for a while?
Will people be scared away by this?
Is it unreasonably strict?
Is there value in reading and writing without sitting?
Will people say they have sat when they haven’t?
Is it valid to monitor what the guy on the next zafu is doing?
Who has the right to ask me about my sitting?
Am I showing resistance/attachment with my response to this?
Is this supportive of practice, or destructive?


All of these questions are valid and interesting. The first and most important question though is for yourself: Did you sit today? Why or why not? Ok, that’s two questions. Have you answered them truthfully for yourself yet?


I sat today. I’m not proud of it. I’m grateful. There have been times in my life when I was too much in pain, too ill, too confused, too arrogant, too distracted, too unsure, too angry, too high, too stupid, too depressed, too caught up in the world, too far off the path to get myself onto the cushion. Always the ideal of a daily practice beckoned, and I was always inspired by those who managed to just do it. How did I know that it was possible? Because people said it, or wrote about it.


My impression, and I could be wrong, is that Jundo is looking for an acknowledgement of daily dedication to the practice - shikantaza zazen - that he is teaching. Teacher is asking if we have done our homework.

It seems kind of clumsy, but I'm willing to write “sat today” by my name to let my teacher know explicitly that I am practicing, and to let others that may be struggling see that a daily practice is possible. If/when I fall off the cushion I hope I will turn to the Sangha to discuss it, and find solace and encouragement and inspiration.

Gassho
Lisa
s@ 2day