Zendo difficulties

[Ugrok]

Thank you very much. Those words are really helpful.

Gassho,

Ugrok

[Joryu]

hi Ugrok I also suggest the g+ zazen or zazenkai,it's a great way to get comfortable sitting with others. since I'm new to zazen g+ sitting has allowed me to learn by watching/participating and I think because I'm in my own home I'm able to settle down quicker and actually practice as opposed to wrestling with my newbie fears. you could come to the 530am sitting with me and a few others - I bet you would totally relax once you saw my dog and cat trying to crash my sitting.

gassho,nandi

[Ugrok]

Well, i live in France, so i don't know what the time would be here (5 30 am is defintely too early for me, ahahah, i'm a slacker), but it sounds like a good idea indeed !

[Jundo]

Well, i live in France, so i don't know what the time would be here (5 30 am is defintely too early for me, ahahah, i'm a slacker), but it sounds like a good idea indeed !

If it is truly important to you, you will get up at 5:30. If not, please stay in bed.

Gassho, J

[Ugrok]

Indeed.

Anyway, problem solved : i think this zazen happens at 11:30 AM to 12PM, for me, which is perfect ! I'll try to come tomorrow if i manage to make it work. Thanks again.

[Meikyo]

So many wise things have been said here.

Just to clear something up: Are you really sitting 1.5 hours without any breaks or kinhin in between? If not that may be part of the reason for your distress. Try and take a short break or something similar. That's what I would do. I haven't heard anyone advise that you should sit strictly for that long at a time.

If you can do it that's fine. I was just personally a little alarmed by it.

Be well and god sitting

Gassho
Aske

[Ugrok]

No, there is a kinhin in the middle!

[Yahantei]

If it is truly important to you, you will get up at 5:30. If not, please stay in bed.

Why do Zen Priests have to be so reasonable about the importance of sitting!? A fellow practitioner at my local Zendo asked a visiting Italian nun how one finds the time to practice every day.

She replied, deadpan, "How do you find the time to eat three times a day?"

How indeed.

[Mp]

Why do Zen Priests have to be so reasonable about the importance of sitting!? A fellow practitioner at my local Zendo asked a visiting Italian nun how one finds the time to practice every day.

She replied, deadpan, "How do you find the time to eat three times a day?"

How indeed.

Hello Yahantel,

Thanks for your reply. =) Also, I was wondering if you could head over to our Greetings by New Folks thread and introduce yourself. This way we can make that human connection. =)

Gassho
Shingen

[Ugrok]

Ok, well, as a stubborn guy, i went again tonight. Things were a bit better, but still, it's very hard for me to practice "properly". All the guys and girls around end zazen saying stuff like "wow the energy was great tonight" and "i feel so replenished" ; well, honestly, i just feel like shit, an exhausted one even, ahahah. I even got to the point of doubting if i should practice zazen. Which is stupid cause i practiced every day on my own for the last 3 or 4 years without a problem.

Still there were moments when i could stop fighting. But there were also moments where i thought i was about to die or disappear. A strange thing happened : at the end of the second zazen, i was "letting go", and all of a sudden i almost jumped, i felt like an electric shock from the bottom of my spine to the stop, as if someone scared me suddenly, but no one did, of course. But i said "oh well" and it passed.

All this zendo experience show me that i'm not in as a good mental shape as i thought i was. Frankly, there were times when i thought "damn i did not know i was so fearful and depressed", but at the same time, i was also able to just be with that, sit with that, not fight that, so i'll take this as a "mid success". I am resolved to practice in the zendo until i can be at ease. I want to be at ease in life, so i won't stop going to the zendo til i am okay with it. Don't know if it's the good attitude but that's my plan.

[Nindo]

Go for it! - but please take care of yourself, too.

[Jundo]

Ok, well, as a stubborn guy, i went again tonight. Things were a bit better, but still, it's very hard for me to practice "properly". All the guys and girls around end zazen saying stuff like "wow the energy was great tonight" and "i feel so replenished" ; well, honestly, i just feel like shit, an exhausted one even, ahahah. I even got to the point of doubting if i should practice zazen. Which is stupid cause i practiced every day on my own for the last 3 or 4 years without a problem.

Still there were moments when i could stop fighting. But there were also moments where i thought i was about to die or disappear. A strange thing happened : at the end of the second zazen, i was "letting go", and all of a sudden i almost jumped, i felt like an electric shock from the bottom of my spine to the stop, as if someone scared me suddenly, but no one did, of course. But i said "oh well" and it passed.

All this zendo experience show me that i'm not in as a good mental shape as i thought i was. Frankly, there were times when i thought "damn i did not know i was so fearful and depressed", but at the same time, i was also able to just be with that, sit with that, not fight that, so i'll take this as a "mid success". I am resolved to practice in the zendo until i can be at ease. I want to be at ease in life, so i won't stop going to the zendo til i am okay with it. Don't know if it's the good attitude but that's my plan.

Reminds me of my experience learning to drive. I was 16. The instructor took me out in the practice car and, eventually, onto the 10-lane I-95 in Florida ...



I was so stressed, worried, gripping the wheel white knuckled. I almost gave up the idea of learning to drive all together.

Then, it took awhile, but I suddenly relaxed and just drove ... alert but not with tension, eyes open watching everything and all things yet with ease. Driving, balanced. Going forward with no place to go, just driving to drive.

Sure, driving down I-95 is still being on the cutting edge of life and death sometimes (literally!) and there have been some close calls and major blow outs out there from time to time (literally ... I have had my share of close calls) ...

Yet, I just drive drive drive, no problem.

Same for me in learning to ride roller coasters, parachute or handle doctors visits and various life emergencies ... just drive drive drive no problem. Balance, open and at ease, alert and ready for whatever comes, yet listening to the tunes on the radio.

Apparently I once said ... I am a very simple headed fellow. I just sit, and such is all the world.

"Energy" great or not ... even feeling "replenished" or not ... this Practice is not really about that. Such is the way to be Replenished with nothing to fill, the "Energy" of a gas tank that is always Full beyond full or empty.

Gassho, Jundo

[Ugrok]

Okay, tonight in the zendo was at the same time worse and better. Worse : my first zazen began quietly, with a bit of the usual anxiety, but all of a sudden i began to HATE everything. Just pure hate coming out of who knows what. I hated being here, i hated the noise, i hated the people, i hated my life, i hated the bell that was not ringing, i hated time not passing, i hated it ALL. I don't think i've ever felt so much hate in my life. It was quite difficult because for a moment i wondered if i was not some kind of sociopath, ahahah. Again this is something that never happened to me while practicing alone. But oh well, it passed and left a more quietous space in which i wondered how i could hate such a beautiful sound as the rain falling on the windows. Was quite interesting in a way to see that i could be in such a place.

Second zazen was more relaxed and filled with smiling faces made of the drippings of the badly painted white wall. It was better, kind of, even if a bit disturbing. At least i had a bit of fun.

Maybe one day all will be "normal", i hope. I still end up quite tired.

[jphiled]

Hi Ugrok,

I've had this problem in some local Zen groups. I think the problem is that such groups don't have a positive, relaxed, welcoming atmosphere. New people don't feel welcome and thus you feel self-conscious. That's a problem with the sangha.

When I visit such danghas it feels like one of those parties where you don't anyone, conversation is forced and awkward and you just sit in the corner drinking something.

People underestimate the importance of a healthy, functional sangha. A sangha can have lots of meditation, ritual and such but if the people don't really get along with each other, it's very hollow and empty.

I'm fortunate to have come across a couple, healthy sanghas (Zen and Pure Land) and I can say it makes a big difference.

My personal opinion: keep looking around. Even if you can only visit such a sangha once a year, it is still worth it.

[Rich]

Ugrok, yea just the rain falling on the windows is a beautiful place to be.

Kind regards. /\