What the bleep do we know

[will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrKvzPXULME&feature=related[/video]]

... re=related



Gassho

[Jun]

That's copyrighted material, no?

[Jundo]

Re: What the bleep do we know

Gassho

Hey Will,

Thanks for the link (besides the copyright issues !).

You had no way to know this, but that movie has been the object of my wrath for years.

It is, first, a prime example of pseudo-science and a bit of legitimate science twisted and misused in the cause of New-Agey and so-called "Eastern" religions. Many of the scientists appearing in that movie did not know that their quotes would be used in that way, or found their comments edited to convey the wrong impression. Other "scientists" in the film have highly questionable credentials. I believe there has been litigation about it ...

Scientists who have reviewed What the Bleep Do We Know!? have described distinct assertions made in the film as pseudoscience.[20] Amongst the concepts in the film that have been challenged are assertions that water molecules can be influenced by thought,[5] that meditation can reduce violent crime rates,[10] and that quantum physics implies that "consciousness is the ground of all being." The film was also discussed in a letter published in Physics Today that challenges how physics is taught, saying teaching fails to "expose the mysteries physics has encountered [and] reveal the limits of our understanding." In the letter, the authors write "the movie illustrates the uncertainty principle with a bouncing basketball being in several places at once. There's nothing wrong with that. It's recognized as pedagogical exaggeration. But the movie gradually moves to quantum 'insights' that lead a woman to toss away her antidepressant medication, to the quantum channeling of Ramtha, the 35,000-year-old Atlantis god, and on to even greater nonsense." It went on to say that "most laypeople cannot tell where the quantum physics ends and the quantum nonsense begins, and many are susceptible to being misguided," a situation which the authors attribute to how in the current teaching of quantum mechanics "we tacitly deny the mysteries physics has encountered."

http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-59/iss-11/p14.html

Also:

http://csicop.org/si/2004-09/review.html

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/what_the_bleep_.html

Second, the movie was sponsored by a rather bizarre cult, fronted by the woman who appears in the film, all without disclosing that fact ... and was basically intended as a propaganda piece and money maker for that cult.

Bleep was conceived and its production funded by William Arntz, who co-directed the film along with Betsy Chasse and Mark Vicente all of whom are students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. ...

Ramtha (a.k.a. JZ Knight)

Ramtha is a 35,000 year-old spirit-warrior who appeared in JZ Knight’s kitchen in Tacoma, Washington, in 1977. Knight claims that she is Ramtha’s channel. She also owns the copyright to Ramtha and conducts sessions in which she pretends to go into a trance and speaks Hollywood’s version of Elizabethan English in a guttural, husky voice. She has thousands of followers and has made millions of dollars performing as Ramtha at seminars ($1,000 a crack) and at her Ramtha School of Enlightenment, and from the sales of tapes, books, and accessories (Clark and Gallo 1993). She must have hypnotic powers. Searching for self-fulfillment, otherwise normal people obey her command to spend hours blindfolded in a cold, muddy, doorless maze. In the dark, they seek what Ramtha calls the ‘void at the center.’

Knight says she used to be “spiritually restless,” but not any more. Ramtha from Atlantis via Lemuria has enlightened her. He first appeared to her, she says, while she was in business school having extraordinary experiences with UFOs. She must have a great rapport with her spirit companion, since he shows up whenever she needs him to put on a performance. It is not clear why Ramtha would choose Knight, but it is very clear why Knight would choose Ramtha: fame and fortune, or simple delusion.

Knight claims to believe that she's lived many lives. If so, one wonders what she needs Ramtha for: she's been there, done that, herself, in past lives. She ought to be able to speak for herself after so many reincarnations.

http://skepdic.com/ramtha.html

Now, why does this concern me so?

We Zen folks are in an area of Practice and philosophy that often is mixed up with "New Age" beliefs and other examples of cosmic hocus-pocus and fluff. In Zen Practice, if you can't taste it for yourself after a time, and if it really seems to go against reason ... DON'T believe a word.

I do not think that modern science has "all the answers", and I believe that in future centuries, folks will laugh at many of our beliefs as being "quaint", just as we chuckle at folks of centuries past. I also have criticized being too reliant on modern science as the explanation for all things. I am even writing a book related to this. But, even so ...

... if science cannot test a proposition under the "scientific method", there is no basis to assert its truth as "supported by science" (this is the policy I am trying to follow in the book I am writing]. All manner of ridiculous claims can be made with little evidence, no testing and a great deal of wishful thinking ... and science is not about that. I am a Zen Buddhist because I believe there is nothing about our philosophy that involves anything more than new ways of looking at things that can be experienced first hand.

One will find little room for pseudo-science, quackery, hocus-pocus, Buddhas in the Sky and other silliness around Treeleaf Sangha.

Let me know right away if you ever do.

This is so important a topic, that I will discuss it on the "sit-a-long" netcast today as well.

Gassho, Jundo the Skeptic

[Jundo]

Today's talk on "Sit-a-Long with Jundo" ties into this subject ...

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2008/03 ... -xxiv.html

[Longdog]

Reminds me of my ideas about another film 'The secret' that I've not seen but heard all sorts about. Scary people out there :?

[Jundo]

Ah, "The Secret" ... yes, that's another one ...

I did a little talk on that one too. It will save you the price of purchase ...

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/05 ... -viii.html

(pardon the pace of my speaking ... it was a --very-- mellow morning)

Gassho, Jundo

[Skye]

I had to watch - I love pseudoscience, its makes such great entertainment. And knowing the back story makes it even better! I wish a 35,000 year old spirit warrior would appear in my kitchen... and do the dishes. I feel profound compassion for people that fall for this stuff

Someone needs to take a physics 101 course... observing with reflected light hitting your retina is not quite the same as measuring... IIRC it's introducing energy into the system (by measuring with some device) that causes the wave function to collapse. Interesting connection to simultaneously true perspectives though.

I watch a fun show on Vision TV (the local pan-religious channel) called Enigma, it has all kinds of mediums, conspiracies, UFOs, crazy new-age stuff, but with a dollop of skepticism. I didn't know Houdini was the force behind revealing the mediums of the time to be a big hoax - Scientific American was on the verge of giving someone a prize for communicating with the dead before Harry outed her!!

Skye

[Kelly M.]

It is, first, a prime example of pseudo-science and a bit of legitimate science twisted and misused in the cause of New-Agey and so-called "Eastern" religions. Many of the scientists appearing in that movie did not know that their quotes would be used in that way, or found their comments edited to convey the wrong impression. Other "scientists" in the film have highly questionable credentials. I believe there has been litigation about it ...

:!: Good call Jundo :!: I could not have said it better. I had to watch and debate this movie for a reasoning and logical argument philosophy class... we 'ripped it a new one'.

[Kelly M.]

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused.

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

:shock: Uh-oh! RED FLAG! Haha

[Jundo]

Well, the rest apply to Jundo the Guru too ... except the one about "financial disclosure" since we don't collect any money ...

# Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.[NOTES from Jundo the Guru]

# No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. [This one only applies to questions from Harry]

# No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

# Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions. [I guess I failed to mention that part. Tune in to tomorrow's netcast.]

# There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil. [or never seen again]

# Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances. [or come back]

# There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader. [soon]

# Followers feel they can never be "good enough". [None of you are 'good enough']

# The group/leader is always right. [I can't emphasize this enough!!]

# The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible. [I will trade validation for cash or sex]

[Lynn]

# Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

# No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

# No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

# Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

# There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

# Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

# There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

# Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

# The group/leader is always right.

# The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

weeeeelllll...that about sums up the marriage to my first hubby! Except, there weren't really any books, news articles, tv programs about him but he thought they were ALL about him so we were often forced to wear tin foil crowns and hide underground.... :? :? :? (oh, you think I JOKE?? The man was a nut job...)

OK..that might be in the TMI category.... 8)

[TMI=too much information]

[TracyF]

Hey I heard of this show. I think. I never saw it. Isn't this the one that would use some poor unsuspecting, geeky physicist to talk about quantum mechanics and then use that to make some wacked claim.

Poor scientist: The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that you don't know where a particle is and its momentum at the same time.

Mysterious voice over: Therefore, monkeys can fly out of your ass.

:lol:

[Rev R]

well since someone mentioned "the secret"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=usbNJMUZSwo[/video]]

:twisted:

[Skye]

Those guys are hilarious, thanks for the link Rev. What gets me about this stuff is how crass and materialistic it is... yeah, getting that new bike, or more money, or whatever is really gonna make you happy... just feeds this sense of entitlement and victimhood that drives me nuts!!

[Longdog]

That youtube clip was very funny Rev R.

Is it just me, but I can't for the life what is spiritual about just wanting lots of things :roll:

I can guess what Bush asked for and it wasn't world peace :lol:

Gassho, Kev
send me all your money