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Hondō Kyōnin
奔道 協忍 -
Buddha's relics
I do not believe in the healing powers, just thought it was something cool to see. The tour has been in over 60 countries and viewed by more than a million people. Some of the Buddha relics were donated by the Dalai Lama. I have found out there are many who claim to have relics of Buddha, so who knows if these are true relics. Interestingly, there is a guy in South Korea that will convert cremated remains in to beads for around $800.
Last edited by Troy; 09-07-2014, 05:18 PM.Comment
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I have donated my body to science and organ donation. However, looking in the mirror each morning, I am not sure who would want it.
If they find any kidney stones when cutting me up, I will leave instructions that they should be sent to Dosho for appropriate worship and enshrinement. Given my cholesterol, there is an excellent chance.
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 09-07-2014, 05:29 PM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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^ lol, Jundo!Comment
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Hi. After discussing this subject with my partner, she looked at this thread and said my post was blunt and rude, and she is usually right.
So this is why one person here does not venerate relics. It is not because I'm a modernist who rejects magic. There is a place where magic can happen, where you can fly and make displays in the sky, but it requires entering the warp-field of a magician, Guru, or Cult. Today going there alone is called having a psychotic break. Having come from a place where the subtle and the magical was "spiritual", practicing Buddhism was for me a release from such mysticism. My favorite image of the Buddha is when he is touching the earth. There is something very powerful and beautiful about that.
This is not to judge Tibetan Buddhism. It is old and venerable and has the authenticity of Indigenous Culture. That has to be respected.
Gassho
DaizanComment
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Deepest bows Daizan. I get where you are coming from
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If you want to encounter the most wonderful and at the same time most ordinary thing that can heal you - sit down on your cushion and do nothing.
The Buddha is in the air that you breathe, the water you drink. He is in a fart of a baby, in the smell of a rose - or the classic, a dried shit-stick.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, it's still interesting (I'd also visit the exhibition if it were in the neighborhood, just out of interest). Thank you for sharing this, Troy!
@Daizan:
I don't find your first post rude - it's just honest.
Gassho,
DaitetsuLast edited by Daitetsu; 09-07-2014, 08:15 PM.no thing needs to be addedComment
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Was that rude to say "Personally"?
On this subject of magical myth and superstition in the Buddhist religion, I believe in being blunt (although always recognizing that I am not the last word, all that is offered is a viewpoint, that one person's myth is another person's Sacred Teaching which is to be respected, and who is to say as the final word?).
But I believe in saying that, in my humble opinion, a spade is a spade and a kidney stone is a kidney stone.
Kidney stones are sacred too, and are also magic amulets and "miraculous signs and proof of spiritual worth" of a kind to those who can see. Their coming and going somehow reminds me of the old Koan about fitting an Ox through a small hole but, certainly, they are excellent teachers of the wisdom that, in life, "This Too Shall Pass."
By the way, it is not only "Tibetan Buddhists" who have a thing for relics, but Buddhists of all kinds all over the place including Chan, Zen and Soto Zen folks. Dogen tended to widen the definition a bit, however (pg 253 here) ...
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 09-08-2014, 12:30 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Hi all,
In a Zen context, like the revering of the robe of Kokushi that still happens yearly, why this relic business?
Of couse anyone can do as they like, and there are many streams of buddhism where this happens indeed with valid reasons. But in zen? I think its missing the point by miles.
Gassho
Vincent
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOngen (音源) - Sound SourceComment
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I am not so sure, Vincent. Zen is Buddhism, after all, and in China and Japan was practiced with most of the same religious elements and customs as any other form of Buddhism (even if the emphasis was a bit different).
Dogen Zenji tells this story about worshipping relics in Shobogenzo-Zuimonki, which certainly shows that he had mixed feelings on the Practice ...
Kosho Uchiyama Roshi was as critical of the Practice of honoring Relics as I am, although he seems to attribute a more critical attitude to Dogen Zenji than was really there perhaps.One day Dogen said,
In the Zoku-kosoden (the book "Continued Biographies of Eminent Monks"), there’s a story about a monk in the assembly of a certain Zen master. The monk worshipped a golden image of the Buddha as well as the relics of the Buddha. Even in the dormitory, he constantly burned incense and prostrated himself before them, honoring and making offerings.
One day, the master said to the monk, “The image and relics of the Buddha which you worship will eventually be harmful to you.”
The monk was not convinced.
The master continued, “This is the doing of the demon Papiyas [Mara the tempter, so called because he causes hindrances to those who follow the Buddhist Way]. Throw them away right now.”
As the monk was leaving in anger, the master shouted after him, “Open the box and look inside!”
Although angry, the monk opened up the box; he found a poisonous snake lying coiled up inside.
As I think about this story, the images and relics of the Buddha should be revered since they are the form and bones left by the Tathagata [Buddha]; nevertheless, it is a false view to think that you will be able to gain enlightenment only through worshipping them. Such a view will cause you to become possessed by the demon and the poisonous snake.
Since the merit of the Buddha’s teaching does not change, reverence of images and relics will certainly bring blessings to human and heavenly beings equal to paying reverence to the living Buddha. In general, it is true that if you revere and make offerings to the world of the Three Treasures, your faults will disappear and you will gain merit; the karma that leads you to the evil realms will be removed, and you will be reborn in the realms of human and heavenly beings. However, it is a mistaken view to expect to gain enlightenment of the dharma in this way.
Since being the Buddha’s child is following the Buddha’s teachings and reaching buddhahood directly, we must devote ourselves to following the teaching and put all our efforts into the practice of the Way. The true practice which is in accordance with the teaching is nothing but Shikantaza, which is the essence of the life in this sorin (monastery) today. Think this over deeply.
http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/comm...nki/01-01.html
On can also visit Dogen's grave at Eiheiji, which is a kind of Relic, and the Monks offer incense there daily ...
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 09-08-2014, 06:04 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Historically speaking, yes indeed. And I see no harm in remembering and paying respects to our inheritance and lineage and those involved. Burning incense near a grave in remembrance or respect seems a honorable thing to do.
Worshiping, I think, is something entirely different.
Beliefs aside, I agree with what Dogen said above but I feel that any belief or worship might stand in the way of seeing what is there. Isn't it eventually just adding another layer of delusion?
Gassho
Vincent
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOngen (音源) - Sound SourceComment
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Hi All,
thank you for this interesting thread, it has got me thinking.
Yes, I agree, but I would use the word ‘longing’ rather than the word ‘ignorance’. It seems that people do have a primitive longing for meaning in their lives. I can scoff at these relics, but when I went to the SciFi Museum and saw Captain Kirk’s chair, I found a tear welling in my eye! I think we all have relics. A treasured love letter, a family heirloom, your good-luck Tshirt that is older than your kids. We carry relics inside us as well, memories that sustain us. We treasure these things and turn them over and over, and they become well-worn. These things are magic because they are from another time, from the ashes of something that is gone now, and they connect us to something larger and unseen; something good that gives us hope and comfort. I imagine these stones give some people hope and comfort, and a sense of wonder and possibility. And that’s not a bad place to start on our path, even if it is a form of attachment.But I also believe that such beliefs are primitive and appeal to a kind of ignorance in human beings.
My only problem is with those that seek to exploit this very human longing for meaning, and thereby gain money or power.
Gassho
Lisa展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.Comment
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I have no room for this Buddha relic mythology and magic.. yet on the night we euthanized my dog I was praying that she find her way to "heaven" where she can meet her sister who passed a couple years ago, and that I may meet with her again.
One person's magic is another person's medicine I suppose. lol
Gassho,
Risho
P.S. I'm still mostly a person of science
Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.comComment
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I've always had a soft spot for Ananda, because he was so faithful and always a bit slow. In the early scriptures the Buddha was always responding to Ananda's comments with something like ...."not so Ananda". I've just always liked him. If I found what I believed was his walking stick, I would treasure it, and be moved by the thought that he walked with it.
But... when I read something like this from the relic tour organizers about some alleged body part....
......I don't get a wholesome feeling.During 2003, the relics of Ananda changed colour and a new one appeared, much larger than the other relics. Lama Zopa Rinpoche explained that this phenomenon is due to the “good karma of the Relic Tour”. Those who have come to see the relics have done so with a mind of respect and devotion, thus creating the cause resulting in more relics appearing. Five of the small ringsel relics travel separately in the American tour collection
Gassho
DaizanComment
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