Fashion for a Clouded Mind

[Amelia]

When I first wanted to be Buddhist, I wished there had been the option to take the precepts without having to sew a rakusu, mostly out of laziness, but also because I felt it was only an accessory. Perhaps an accessory that could go to my head.

However, that winter of sewing, studying, and Ango is what made me Buddhist.

I have spent a lot of time with Krishnamurti, and now Packer, dropping every image. I can understand and practice without the kesa, but the paradox is that I wouldn't understand practice without the kesa, and as so many have said, it is always being worn, always sincere.

Gassho to all

[Jundo]

Hi,

Just to be clear, Treeleaf will continue to offer the Practice of Sewing and Wearing the Kesa for those who find such a Dharma Gate.

And we shall continue to ask folks to sew a Rakusu for Jukai (absent some special situation not to, such as in the case of an elderly member with arthritis as sometimes happens). We will continue to ask our folks wishing to Ordain as Novice Priests to sew a Kesa. Also, anyone ... whether taking the Path of Ordination or not ... may sew and wear a Nyoho-e Kesa in that Tradition when receiving permission to do so from a Teacher.

But I will also recognize the right of the Ordained (and all members), after sewing one, to be such without wearing the visible Kesa or Rakusu. (Neither course of wearing or not wearing makes one "more a real Buddhist" so long as one is seeking to embody and live the Buddha's Teachings) Or sometimes (like me) someone may appear to put it on or take it off at different times (although such is only an appearance, and the True Kesa can neither be put on nor taken off).

It is also possible that there will be some future category of Zen Training as a Teacher where the Kesa is not involved at all, for certain folks who do not find their Dharma Gate there. Let's see what happens. Let's play it by ear.

I hope to offer several good Dharma Gates at Treeleaf suited to different folks and their Paths.

(I hope my "clarification" does not muddle the picture more!)

Gassho, Jundo

PS - I am reminded very much of the Catholic Nuns, many of whom have taken off the Habit (at least to the eye) or only wear such sometimes ...

[Jika]

I'm deeply thankful for what you are sharing of your thoughts and experiences here.

Thanks, Kyonin.

Thanks for what you let me find myself.

One object can be a symbol, a tool, the whole you and the universe at different times or the same:

I thought of a stethoscope or a doctor's coat.
The newbies walk around, proud, hardly knowing how to handle them.
After years of use, those are tools, can be a burden, are a part of you.
When used in an emergency, there is no coat that must not get dirty, no stethoscope to boast. Those things do not exist. Only the universe holding its breath and breathing on. Action without awareness of the "symbolic" means involved.

Gassho,
Danny

[Jinyo]

Thank you for this clarification Jundo and I patiently wait in hope for this potential 'future category of Zen training'.

Just to say - as it is easy to misunderstand each other's words - as a symbol I do perceive the Kesa as a robe of grace.

Regarding the act of meditative sewing - I spent eight weeks embroidering a small piece of cloth to attach to a photo album for the birth of my first grandchild. During those eight weeks my father lay dying. Tears of sadness and tears of joy mixed with those threads and that piece of cloth was as sacred to me as any kesa or rakusa I may sew. I do not mean by that I will never sew a Kesa.

We do not necessarily choose our dharma gates - Dogen says as much. And if we are lucky enough to catch that glimpse Taigu writes of who can say when that might come or through what means?

IMHO - it's really important that a student isn't made to feel a failure - or that they are lacking - or missing something because the Kesa isn't their chosen gate. That is to create some kind of law and that's where tradition can start to exclude and create difference.

I am sorry for these clumsy words,



Willow

[Shugen]

"Regarding the act of meditative sewing - I spent eight weeks embroidering a small piece of cloth to attach to a photo album for the birth of my first grandchild. During those eight weeks my father lay dying. Tears of sadness and tears of joy mixed with those threads and that piece of cloth was as sacred to me as any kesa or rakusa I may sew. "

Beautiful Willow.

Gassho,

Shugen


Shugen

[RichardH]

Daizan,

Perhaps I misunderstood what you had said and I sincerely apologize. However, whether it be perfection or maturity will we ever attain it in this life? My point is simple, I have lived a long life and I know for myself I am neither perfect nor mature about many things. Yet, if I did not take the first step and try I would have never sewn a Rakusu nor completed Jukai. You speak of a desire to ordain, don't let life pass you by while wondering why you were not mature enough to try.

I will say no more to you concerning this as it is of course none of my business. The decision to ordain or do anything in life is a decision of the individual and I respect that. Sticking my nose into your personal life showed my lack of maturity at age 64 but yet I didn't let it stand in my way of expressing my point of view. I know that in my heart that if I truly wanted something bad enough I would do what I needed to do to obtain it.

Please understand I was not trying to put you down but lift you up to achieve your goal. I wonder how many Priest in Training can vouch for being mature enough to be one.

Be well Daizan, I know that you have a lot on your shoulders at this time in your life and I wish you no harm.

Gassho,
Heishu

Hello Heishu.

No offence taken at all, I appreciate what you say and this discussion.

Maturity means different things for different people i guess.

It is a flower in the sky, but what isn't? I am wary of selective emptiness, which will always be tailored to suit prejudice. I'll have prejudice as long as I'm alive, but it does not have to determine where one thing is empty and another is somehow not. It is always that not-empty thing in my blind spot that runs the show. Everything is empty, everything is a dew drop, a dream, a flash of lightening. Yet this is the life being lived, there is not another non-empty one. For these dream feet, the dream ground is solid enough to walk on, and that is the ordinary ground. So I prefer to drop emptiness talk and just talk about ordinary maturing these days.

Training to be a priest, to teach, is something I have felt compelled to do for a long, especially when there is so much need around me, and so much malpractice. But there is a sovereignty of the heart that has not been so clear.. It has always been there, but has been obscured. With maturity practice is far more in and from this Heart. When mountains are once again full, the heart can shine.

Also , With maturity the nature of devotion to the Dharma seems to change. Buddhism is a practice of awakening and ending suffering, and the measure of practice is how I live. When this Heart is open and without fixed idea, life is met skillfully and appropriately. Magic can happen. I want to nurture this practice and pay it forward.. One perception that stayed with me since first learning to sit on a zafu is that there was a certain grandiosity to the Mahayana claims that did not square with the little cliques I was encountering. Zen does not does not need to lose power and depth in order to be of this time and place. It does not mean diluting the dharma into some kind washed out wellbeing movement. The forms a have evolved over centuries as they encounter new times and cultures. It can have more power and depth than ever, and reach out to this time and culture, but it will take a certain adaptive genius in the coming years. ..anyway that's another interesting discussion.

Gassho

ever-flawed Daizan

BTW.. I do not assume being accepted as a formal student by anyone.. just talking about the aspiration over time.

[Jakudo]

What a wonderful discussion, thank you all!
Gassho, Jakudo

[Heishu]

Hello Heishu.

No offence taken at all, I appreciate what you say and this discussion.

Maturity means different things for different people i guess.

It is a flower in the sky, but what isn't? I am wary of selective emptiness, which will always be tailored to suit prejudice. I'll have prejudice as long as I'm alive, but it does not have to determine where one thing is empty and another is somehow not. It is always that not-empty thing in my blind spot that runs the show. Everything is empty, everything is a dew drop, a dream, a flash of lightening. Yet this is the life being lived, there is not another non-empty one. For these dream feet, the dream ground is solid enough to walk on, and that is the ordinary ground. So I prefer to drop emptiness talk and just talk about ordinary maturing these days.

Training to be a priest, to teach, is something I have felt compelled to do for a long, especially when there is so much need around me, and so much malpractice. But there is a sovereignty of the heart that has not been so clear.. It has always been there, but has been obscured. With maturity practice is far more in and from this Heart. When mountains are once again full, the heart can shine.

Also , With maturity the nature of devotion to the Dharma seems to change. Buddhism is a practice of awakening and ending suffering, and the measure of practice is how I live. When this Heart is open and without fixed idea, life is met skillfully and appropriately. Magic can happen. I want to nurture this practice and pay it forward.. One perception that stayed with me since first learning to sit on a zafu is that there was a certain grandiosity to the Mahayana claims that did not square with the little cliques I was encountering. Zen does not does not need to lose power and depth in order to be of this time and place. It does not mean diluting the dharma into some kind washed out wellbeing movement. The forms a have evolved over centuries as they encounter new times and cultures. It can have more power and depth than ever, and reach out to this time and culture, but it will take a certain adaptive genius in the coming years. ..anyway that's another interesting discussion.

Gassho

ever-flawed Daizan

BTW.. I do not assume being accepted as a formal student by anyone.. just talking about the aspiration over time.

Daizan,

Such wonderful words. You have a gift and I will say no more.

Gassho,
Heishu

[Amelia]

I'll roll with it, Jundo. Gassho

[Taigu]

We do not necessarily choose our dharma gates - Dogen says as much. And if we are lucky enough to catch that glimpse Taigu writes of who can say when that might come or through what means?

IMHO - it's really important that a student isn't made to feel a failure - or that they are lacking - or missing something because the Kesa isn't their chosen gate. That is to create some kind of law and that's where tradition can start to exclude and create difference.

Dear Willow,

I don' know about Dharma gates as in my practice there is but one gate called shikantaza as you shave you head and wear the Okesa.

In my not very humble opinion , students are students . They should be invited to sit 10 years, and throw again ten years, and ten or twenty more years before opening their mouth about the great matter. And I am but a student.

In this age , everybody has an opinion and is blessed with great understandings before they even try to practice.

I am nobody to have an opinion about this and that, all I did in my life was to put into practice the teachings received .

As a teacher I make sure that the tradition is transmitted correctly.

As to the mysterious and the ineffable of the path, well it is very open to anybody who surrenders. The way does nt exclude anybody, people exclude themselves.

So you are my guest, Willow!

Gassho

Taigu

[Jinyo]

Dear Taigu,

my response was partly in reply to Jundo's considerations. The expression 'dharma gates' was taken from that part of the discussion.

I have thoughts and questions - but agree - opinions are not of much use - so I would like to change that abbreviation IMHO to IMHT - - in my humble thoughts.

As to opening my mouth on the 'great matter' (the subject of life and death?) - my age and poor health decree that I do not have forty years grace before I may utter my clumsy thoughts on that matter. I hope you can understand this.

I appreciate that I am invited to be your guest - I mean that sincerely.

Gassho

Willow

[Dosho]

Hi all,

I have missed this thread (and doubtless other ones!) since returning from retreat. Much to consider, but I would just like to point out that, unless I am mistaken, we traditionally ask that only folks who have taken jukai undertake the sewing of a full kesa. If this has changed please correct me, but I personally would not think it wise to sew a kesa before sewing a rakusu.

Compared to the issues that have been discussed it is a minor point, but I believe it to be an important one.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Jundo]

Hi all,

I have missed this thread (and doubtless other ones!) since returning from retreat. Much to consider, but I would just like to point out that, unless I am mistaken, we traditionally ask that only folks who have taken jukai undertake the sewing of a full kesa. If this has changed please correct me, but I personally would not think it wise to sew a kesa before sewing a rakusu.

Compared to the issues that have been discussed it is a minor point, but I believe it to be an important one.

Gassho,
Dosho

Hi Dosho,

Yes, of course, someone who requests to sew a Kesa should have already had the experience of sewing a Rakusu, which means folks who have undertaken Jukai here.

Thank you for the clarification.

Gassho, J

[Jika]

Hi Dosho,

thanks for pointing this out; I was refering to the "older posts" quite at the beginning (beautiful making of your kesa, Dosho!) where I came across that.
Didn't know how else to ask without hurting anyone.
This is the first time for me to see the teachers disagree (well, maybe the second after offline Shukke tokudo?), and it is hard on me.

(Change of topic.)
I've been sitting with this thread, especially with what Yugen wrote.

So, when I was asking "Watcha wearing?", I got very helpful answers.

If asking "How can I follow the Buddha's way/realize buddha [by means of clothes]?", did I get this right:
The finest garment alone will not make me buddha if I am not it.
The oldest unsewn blanket will not take buddha away from me if I am it.

For everything inbetween, I have no experience: I know practice in jeans and in blankets. The other things like practice in Rakusu or Kesa, I do not know.

Gassho,
Danny

[Taigu]

Dear Danny,

Don t worry about teachers disagreeing : it is a proof of sanity more than anything else .

A kesa does n t turn anybody into a Buddha, because YOU ARE BUDDHA you are invited to wear the kesa. Same with zazen, we don t sit to become enlightened , but because we are already enlightened, we sit. Simple as that . When you really get this, daily practice is easy.

Take great care in jeans and blankets or whatever, always Buddha, always you.

Gassho

T.