Joko's Equation Compassion

[Dainin]

I just bought Charlotte Joko Beck's new 3-CD set of Dharma talks, called Living Everyday Zen:

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Everyday-C ... 021&sr=1-5

I'm still on the first CD and already I'm getting a lot out of it. I was listening to it as I was driving to work this morning, and Joko offers an equation:

"Being zero = a life of freedom and compassion"

As she explains, zero equals "this very moment," stripped of any baggage or other stuff we may bring to it. Simply living "just this." She said that this is all Zen students really need to know, and I thought this was a nice way of expressing this. Then she said that if we truly lived this equation there would be no way to be unhappy. Okay, I thought, perhaps. But then she said something like since we don't live this equation, since we don’t truly live in this very moment, this is the very cause of every human ill and suffering. If we lived this very moment there would be no ills and suffering. I’m very skeptical of this. Her idea here leaves no room for, for example, child abuse, famine, various forms of oppression, etc.

Perhaps, I do not understand what she’s saying here, but I’d welcome your thoughts.

---------------------------
Also, this may warrant another thread, but Joko’s use of “compassion” in her equation, brought up another question for me. Zen teachers always use this word, but never really seem to define it. I know about the Bodhisattva model but this seems too esoteric to me to be of real use. What does it really mean to be compassionate? I know the Golden Rule and caring about others, and I also realize how VERY difficult it is to practice, but sometimes it seems we just give it lip service in Zen. Is being compassionate really just about living Joko’s equation? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[will]

Perhaps she is speaking to each person individually. If everyone had this capacity or understanding than it would releave a lot of suffering.

Keith I'm sure you have helped someone spontaneously without any thought of reward. This is compassion. It always reminds me of a time when I saw someone struggling to get a wheel chair unstuck. I offered my help. The wheel chair was moved, nothing was said and I went on with my day.

Gassho Will

[Skye]

Hi Keith,

I'm currently reading "Nothing Special" by Joko Beck as well, and I am also finding some statements that I do not agree with. They seem too reductionist, for example:

"Enlightenment is, after all, simply an absence of any concern for self." (p.60)

I'm only about halfway through, but I've also noticed nowhere does it address something like leaving an abusive relationship, in fact it seems to advocate staying around harmful people as they are "full of lessons" and there's "nobody to harm" - whenever it looks like you're supposed to freeze your life in the moment you start practice and just live with whatever it is, I get a little weirded out. It sounds like you've found something similar. She equates "nobody's home here" to "nothing can hurt me" - in that the feeling of hurt will still arise but it doesn't create attachment? She praises several times those with terminal illnesses because they tend to "get it" - but it seems to me like kind of a cop-out.

However, there's a lot of good stuff in the book too. Sorry to thread-jack with my incomplete book review Back to your comment...

Yes that does seem kind of lacking to this neophyte, does the moment not include all your baggage? The statement does not seem equal to "add nothing, subtract nothing" - it sure looks to me like there's a lot of subtracting going on. While I've been sitting with my baggage I try to just see it for what it is (empty and not-empty) rather than trying to push it away.

Then again, I don't think she is Soto because she refers to shikantaza several times as something she's familiar with but doesn't seem to teach.

One thing I've been trying to figure out is what lineage or school she teaches - context is important. She mentions koan study at her center, but from her Wikipedia page, it kind of sounds like a potpourri of teaching styles: "Teachers are committed to the openness and fluidity of practice, wherein the wisdom of the absolute may be manifested in/as our life. An important function of this school is the ongoing examination and development of effective teaching approaches to insure comprehensive practice in all aspects of living." - I could be totally wrong in this. And while I appreciate attempts to reformulate practice (as every school has done), it can create some strange inconsistencies as well.

Skye

[Jenny]

Joko's Equation and Compassion

Hi Skye and Keith.
Joko's book "Nothing Special" is one of the most helpful books I have ever read about practice and my copy is very underlined and worn with re-reading. If you would like to listen to a short video in which she talks about her life and her teaching you will find it under
http://www.willkefilm.de/index.html?wil ... h/beck.htm
Jenny

[louis]

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin' don't mean nothin' hon' if it ain't free, no no
And feelin' good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues
You know, feelin' good was good enough for me
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee

I think Joko Beck is expressing the sentiment that the world doesn't care about my expectations, and so long as I hold on to them, I am bound to be disappointed. Think of relationships. They all end. The best ones end with one person saying goodbye after 50 years of marriage. That plain sucks. So better to never get close to anyone. Now if instead I am happy to have my loved ones in my life at this moment, really look at my little one and be happy with playing or making dinner. Just for today.

Now, like everyone else, I clearly have my share of stuff to worry about. Mortgage, health care, job issues and they can consume my thinking at that moment. What will I chose to do? Taste the strawberries my friend, they are sweet.

My experience is that ethical questions are difficult to articulate because the intent is to generalize from a specific circumstance, and therefore ignores much of what is in front of me in the interest of abstraction. I know it when I see it. So I can't really speak of the Zen and the question of Evil. But I am free to react to what is in front of me, and act. That act can be charitable, empathetic, or informative. It depends on the actual circumstances.

Good to hear from you Keith, and best regards to your family.

[Dainin]

Hi Will,

Perhaps she is speaking to each person individually. If everyone had this capacity or understanding than it would releave a lot of suffering.

Yes, I see where you’re coming from here, but I listened to this part of the CD a number of times to make sure I heard it right, and it sure seems to me that she’s talking in the universal sense (e.g., if we all lived in this very moment, there would be no war or human ills). Still seems implausible to me.

Keith I'm sure you have helped someone spontaneously without any thought of reward. This is compassion. It always reminds me of a time when I saw someone struggling to get a wheel chair unstuck. I offered my help. The wheel chair was moved, nothing was said and I went on with my day.

Of course, I agree with you here. I think that that’s the best type of compassion we can practice. But, again, sometimes Zennies make it seem more complicated than this.

Gassho,
Keith

[Dainin]

Hi Skye,

I generally love Joko’s bare-bones approach Zen, but sometimes I have some of same questions you do.

One thing I've been trying to figure out is what lineage or school she teaches - context is important. She mentions koan study at her center, but from her Wikipedia page, it kind of sounds like a potpourri of teaching styles: "Teachers are committed to the openness and fluidity of practice, wherein the wisdom of the absolute may be manifested in/as our life. An important function of this school is the ongoing examination and development of effective teaching approaches to insure comprehensive practice in all aspects of living." - I could be totally wrong in this. And while I appreciate attempts to reformulate practice (as every school has done), it can create some strange inconsistencies as well.

I understand that she is a Dharma heir of Maezumi Roshi, Founder of the White Plum lineage (an amalgam of Soto and Rinzai teachings that do use a lot of koans), but she distanced herself from him after it was revealed he had had sex with some of his students. It’s perhaps telling that on the cover of this new CD set, it says nothing about him, but states, “In the 1960's she studied with Soen Nakagawa Roshi, who she considers her teacher.” It also seems that she’s influenced by the Theravada tradition when she talks about labeling thoughts. While she’s not Soto, I wouldn’t agree that she’s “inconsistent” but perhaps eclectic.

Gassho,
Keith

[Dainin]

Hi Jenny,

I've seen that clip before and it is very good. Thank you for posting it again.

Hi Louis,

I think Joko Beck is expressing the sentiment that the world doesn't care about my expectations, and so long as I hold on to them, I am bound to be disappointed. Think of relationships. They all end. The best ones end with one person saying goodbye after 50 years of marriage. That plain sucks. So better to never get close to anyone. Now if instead I am happy to have my loved ones in my life at this moment, really look at my little one and be happy with playing or making dinner. Just for today.

Now, like everyone else, I clearly have my share of stuff to worry about. Mortgage, health care, job issues and they can consume my thinking at that moment. What will I chose to do? Taste the strawberries my friend, they are sweet.

I completely agree. That's our life-long practice. I also think that Joko is saying that, but (not to harp on it), to go back to my original question, does it really solve ALL the world's ills? Before anyone says it, I don't think it really matters if it does or doesn't because it is an excellent, skillful, and balanced way to live. Just wondered what Joko meant by that comment that I included in my original post.

Good to hear from you Keith, and best regards to your family.

Thank you, Louis. That's very nice of you to say.

Gassho,
Keith

[will]

Still seems implausible to me.

Yes. Indeed it can, but ya gotta have Faith, ah faith, ah faith, ah(as George Micheals says)

Gassho

[will]

I haven't actually heard her CD. I'm just sort of guessing at her meaning. Might help.

I should probably say that it's more than faith. It's what the Buddha had and what a lot of Zen teachers have "an understanding of the four noble truths."


Gassho

[Shane]

i have found some good info and approach in joko's words from reading Everyday Zen, which i just finshed. i just think sometimes she starts off on an idea or metaphor and then somewhere in her talk she realizes it sounded good at first but didn't really work out when she followed it too far along and then she sort of passes it of as "oh well, you know what i mean". which is cute but not always helpful. i do want to get the cd's tho. i listened to an mp3 except on soundstrue.com and to point out what i mentioned already, she starts her talk by saying "i'm going to talk about a lot of things...sometimes i'm good at that, sometimes i'm not" LOL and thus she is perfect for me cuz i often feel the same way.

[Dainin]

Hi Shane,

i have found some good info and approach in joko's words from reading Everyday Zen, which i just finshed. i just think sometimes she starts off on an idea or metaphor and then somewhere in her talk she realizes it sounded good at first but didn't really work out when she followed it too far along and then she sort of passes it of as "oh well, you know what i mean". which is cute but not always helpful. i do want to get the cd's tho. i listened to an mp3 except on soundstrue.com and to point out what i mentioned already, she starts her talk by saying "i'm going to talk about a lot of things...sometimes i'm good at that, sometimes i'm not" LOL and thus she is perfect for me cuz i often feel the same way.

Yes, one thing I've always liked about Joko is her down-to-earth approach. In the CD especially, she comes across as a wise friend. No doubt that she is a true master, but also a human being. She doesn't "act the part" of an untouchable master.

Gassho,
Keith

[Lynn]

Hi Keith...

I don't know much about Joko Beck, but I am always learning about compassion.

I have found that the face of compassion is not always beautific as is often portrayed in iconography with regard to Kanzeon. Indeed, sometimes you have to be "cruel" to be kind, although I would prefer to refer to it as "tough love." This is where I have the greatest respect for a master/teacher who has disciples/students. In this regard, the teacher must determine what is the most compassionate and skillfull way to wake the mind of the student. So, you hear stories that sound like a master has been incredibly ruthless, but this is not so.

It is the same with a parent and a child...sometimes we have to wake our children up to their dilemmas in order to offer them a way out. When my son was foolish enough to steal a pack of cards and a pack of gum from a store he was arrested and sent to juvie detention. It was a lock up situation...he had his stuff taken and he was in a cell. I had the option to pick him up right away when they called at noon...first offense, no priors. I also had the option to leave him there overnight. Given the offense, I didn't feel that I needed to do that, but I did make him sit there for the rest of the day until I was done with work at 5PM. Gave him the time to experience. That was my middle way. He needed to get the impact of his actions, but he didn't need to suffer beyond what was necessary.

I look back at the times when I have pushed the limits of what was good and had the kyosaku of life brought down upon my shoulders. But, as I was mentioning to someone, the trick to understanding the use of the kyosaku is that the student tilts their head ever to slightly indicating that they wish to have it used. At those times when compassion greets us with a wrathful face it is still compassion, and it is giving us what we have requested: help to get us out of our suffering.

Anyway, just a thought on the thing. $0.02 *chaching!*

In Gassho~

*Lynn

[Jenny]

Joko's Equasion and Compassion

I'm coming in again here because I have been listening to Joko's video clip again. I notice that she appears to be saying that some years are required in sitting while labelling thoughts in order to become acquainted
with, and free ourselves from, the psychological self which rules our lives.
Then it is possible to sit in Shikantaza after a great deal of work has been done.
I have pondered this question myself from time to time because if we keep
letting go of thoughts when they arise before considering their content
i.e. planning, judgement, fantasy, worry, then are we ignoring what our monkey mind is capable of getting up to, just brushing it aside?

She ends the clip by saying;
"Stop thinking, (i.e. self-centred thinking)
Stop dreaming,
And there is nothing you will not know."
Jenny

[Dainin]

Re: Joko's Equasion and Compassion

Hi Lynn,

Thank you for sharing that story. Yes, as a teacher, I agree that tough love, when applied with compassion and timeliness, is very useful.

Hi Jenny,

I'm coming in again here because I have been listening to Joko's video clip again. I notice that she appears to be saying that some years are required in sitting while labelling thoughts in order to become acquainted
with, and free ourselves from, the psychological self which rules our lives.
Then it is possible to sit in Shikantaza after a great deal of work has been done.
I have pondered this question myself from time to time because if we keep
letting go of thoughts when they arise before considering their content
i.e. planning, judgement, fantasy, worry, then are we ignoring what our monkey mind is capable of getting up to, just brushing it aside?

I've thought about this myself. I know that some teachers feel that teaching shikantaza too early in one's practice causes just that. I'm thinking about Seung Sahn and Sheng-yen.

Gassho,
Keith