I rank, or maybe not

[Jundo]

Woo-hoo! Christmas in July!
Thanks Jundo, hope it doesn't make things too confusing.

Gassho
Lisa

Oh, it will, with people jumping in here and there. So be it.

Gassho, J

[Byokan]

Uh-oh, can of worms!

Gassho
Lisa

[Meishin]

Love this flexibility.

gassho
john

[AlanLa]

Aha! The koan of multiple koans at once has been unleashed!
To take it all in must mean samsara abounds
Which must mean enlightenment threatens.

From what I understand of those old koans so far, some old Zen guy would SHOUT about here….

I like the koans. In general, I like narratives with messages, even more if they have some historical value, and even more if they also have some spiritual value that applies today. But more than all that, I like hearing the input of others on how all of that applies to them individually. To me, that's really what Treeleaf koan study is all about. I believe in the greater collective study rather than the individual perspective that is, by definition, a delusion.

So let's share that study and apply some koans...

[Taigu]

"A man of no rank" has nothing to do with humility!

When you just don't become such a man, when you realize you are it, how could it be humble?


People should sometimes just not read good old Dogen, but practice what he teaches!

Gassho

T.

[alan.r]

People should sometimes just not read good old Dogen, but practice what he teaches!

Gassho

T.

Thank you Taigu. This makes me smile. For instance, I remember reading Mountains and Waters Sutra and being so confused. Just stuck in my intellectualizing, trying to figure it out. What does "mountains walking" and "mountains flowing" mean? Really trying to get a grasp on where the dharma was here - what was his point, his meaning? Then in the last couple weeks I've gone on several hikes. I hiked a mountain and in that was "mountains walking." In that were mountains flowing. Then there were mountains walking in my neighborhood when I walked the dog, or the dog walked me, the next night.

Gassho

[Joyo]

Hmmm, I've noticed even being humble can come with ego. The "oh, look at me, I'm so humble" This is where the practice of mindfulness comes in, as I examine the innermost motives of my heart.

Gassho,
Joyo

[Jishin]

I hiked a mountain and in that was "mountains walking."

A mountain stomped all over me on a recent hike. Need to get in better shape before the next hike.

Gassho, Jishin

[alan.r]

A mountain stomped all over me on a recent hike. Need to get in better shape before the next hike.

Gassho, Jishin

Oh yeah, there's also "mountains stomping" too, a topic Dogen egregiously missed.

Gassho

[Taigu]

A very good one, Joyo. But on mindfulness...a witness,still.
Oheso, this is so interesting.
Mountains stomping is a great and neglected Teaching of Dogen.

Gassho

Taigu

[Oheso]

Hmmm, I've noticed even being humble can come with ego. The "oh, look at me, I'm so humble" This is where the practice of mindfulness comes in, as I examine the innermost motives of my heart.

Gassho,
Joyo

"the pride of humility" as a friend used to refer to it.

gassho, oheso

[AlanLa]

Oh Taigu, how I have missed you!

In another thread I talked about the difference Maya Angelou made about being humble and humility, and it exactly echoes what you say here. To act is not as same as to be...

"A man of no rank" has nothing to do with humility!

When you just don't become such a man, when you realize you are it, how could it be humble?


People should sometimes just not read good old Dogen, but practice what he teaches!

Gassho

T.

Bows to my old friend

[AlanLa]

My bad, in another thread I talked about her views on being a Christian versus christianity. Somewhere else I read her distinction between being humble and humility. I can't find that now, but I did find this page of quotes on that topic.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/maya_angelou.html

[Jundo]

a nice metaphor. I heard of a Asian person's surprised reaction upon first hearing the phrase "conquering a mountain" and told how in their tradition the mountain was characterized as lifting the climber's feet as they ascended.

gassho, oheso

You are walking the mountain, the mountain is walking you, there is just mountain walking mountain, mountain mountaining mountain, walking walks walking. All Buddha Mountain.

And as one walks ahead or stops to rest for a time, gets lost or finds a good path, moves smoothly or stumbles and falls in the mud ... all is Buddha Mountain. How does one try to "get to" Buddha mountain when one stands on ... nay, stands AS ... Buddha Mountain? Where is Buddha Mountain to search for Buddha Mountain?

Yes, we may get lost or fall ... but there is nothing to lose and no place to fall apart from Buddha Mountain. Nonetheless, we get up, dust off, try to find the trail again ... push on, making real progress with time. A climber of many years is better equipped to stay on the good trails ... not fall off the cliff or into the poison ivy ... than the neophyte climber of but a day (Thus, although there is no place to go and nothing to attain, we do get better at it! ) )

Some folks believe that Buddhahood is many mountains away ... and it will take many lives to reach there. Because they believe so, it becomes so.

Some folks find that Buddhahood was in every step, and the stepping itself ... but that there are ways to climb like Buddha and ways to climb like a fool. One may wander after mirages and go in circles, lost in Ignorance, Anger and Greed ... or one may find the Mountain as one's True Self, One's True Home.

We make real progess in discovering that the point of the hike was never the destination, but the hike itself ... each step by step the Total Arrival and Total Realization of Buddha Mountain.

And so with sitting Zazen, just sitting sits sitting with no place to go. 'Tis not our usual human "goal and destination" way of viewing life.

Gassho, J

[Oheso]

doumo arigatou gozaimasu, Sensei, for this teaching and for rescuing my accidentally deleted post.

gassho, oheso