Gyoji, Dokan Taisen Deshimaru Roshi

[Shane]

Hi Janice,

um, Janice, do we share the same brain? :shock:

I was going to post that exact same quote in this thread.

[Jundo]

I wonder if finding peace is really the same as finding truth, or if it's just another delusion. Part of me thinks sometimes, "Well, that's not too bad of a delusion," but accepting spiritual practice just as a way of sedating oneself in a certain way feels to me like giving up. And there are still so many questions.

Shikantaza is not a way of sedating oneself. Far from it. I believe, in fact, that it leads to a self-actualized, creative, spontaneous, open to any challenge and optimistic way of living ... IF done correctly. The result is not valium, but more our being truly at home in life and actively living.

The problem is that truly living and being free means that one can fall off the wild bull now and then. Life means living in a human body, and human bodies are sometimes prone to fall down. That's all. It is like bull riding at the rodeo: If you don't want to fall off the bull sometimes, and risk getting black and blue, you best stay curled up afraid in the corner. Zen folks don't curl up in the corner.

Skye wrote:

Perhaps in Rinzai, the danger is in quitting because it is such a huge mountain to climb, while in Soto the danger is apathy in the face of going nowhere, gaining nothing??

I believe in Rinzai, sometimes, the danger is also that the fast charging train up the mountain will often derail, maybe fall down the mountain. You are playing with dynamite there, which can open a road or cause an avalanche. Takes work with a good teacher, like a good explosives expert, to bring about a good result.

Soto Practice should never be allowed to become apathy. Someone's "just sitting around" doing nothing, going no where, eating one's fill, is not anyway the same as a "Just Sitting" wherein nothing need be done (like the Beatle's song, "no doing that can't be done"), no where that we can go or need go, already full and complete. See my description on the "self-actualized" Zen personality above.

Anyway, I think so. We are not in the valium business around here.

Gassho, Jundo

[Ankai]

God help the beast in me

This was an interesting poem, but one sided. why must the beast be negative?
I couldn't help thinking of the dog who lives in my house. He's a pretty happy beast. His name is One Eyed Willie the Wonderdog. He's a Husky/rottweiler.
He lives a pretty happy life. He's in a nice, dry house with heat. Water and food magically appear out of the sky. When he's hungry, he eats. When he's interested he plays. Sometimes he sits. He listens to the sounds, barks when he feels like it, farts with total impunity in any social setting, will hang out with anyone who wants to, and could not care less about other peoples' ideas or plans. He's always happy to see me, loves unconditionally, and will go out of his way just for a chance to sit by me. Not bad, being a beast. He embraces every bit of his own essence but has no sense of self. We all exist just for him. We ARE him, in his head. He gives not a single thought to tomorrow, and is not shaped by yesterday. He clings to nothing and accepts anything. He doesn't own a thing, and the whole world exists only in his little doggy mind. Willie is the essence of Zen.
So, in answer to Nick Lowe's words, I simply reply, "God help me become a better beast." Or, at least help me become the wonderful person Willie thinks I am.

[Stephanie]

God help the beast in me

This was an interesting poem, but one sided. why must the beast be negative?
I couldn't help thinking of the dog who lives in my house. He's a pretty happy beast. His name is One Eyed Willie the Wonderdog. He's a Husky/rottweiler.
He lives a pretty happy life. He's in a nice, dry house with heat. Water and food magically appear out of the sky. When he's hungry, he eats. When he's interested he plays. Sometimes he sits. He listens to the sounds, barks when he feels like it, farts with total impunity in any social setting, will hang out with anyone who wants to, and could not care less about other peoples' ideas or plans. He's always happy to see me, loves unconditionally, and will go out of his way just for a chance to sit by me. Not bad, being a beast. He embraces every bit of his own essence but has no sense of self. We all exist just for him. We ARE him, in his head. He gives not a single thought to tomorrow, and is not shaped by yesterday. He clings to nothing and accepts anything. He doesn't own a thing, and the whole world exists only in his little doggy mind. Willie is the essence of Zen.
So, in answer to Nick Lowe's words, I simply reply, "God help me become a better beast." Or, at least help me become the wonderful person Willie thinks I am.

A lovely paean to your dog, Kvon.

"Beast" is just a word I use to refer to a certain subjective experience, and it seems Nick Lowe used it similarly. No need to worry about it if it does not apply to your own experience equally well.

Shikantaza is not a way of sedating oneself. Far from it. I believe, in fact, that it leads to a self-actualized, creative, spontaneous, open to any challenge and optimistic way of living ... IF done correctly. The result is not valium, but more our being truly at home in life and actively living.

Sure. I love to sit zazen before I do sensually enjoyable things; it certainly seems to open things up. It helps me do the work I want to do with more courage, humor, and equanimity. I just always end up haunted by that "not truly at home" feeling, and sometimes the calmness of zazen feels like a patina over it, not a resolution.

I believe in Rinzai, sometimes, the danger is also that the fast charging train up the mountain will often derail, maybe fall down the mountain. You are playing with dynamite there, which can open a road or cause an avalanche. Takes work with a good teacher, like a good explosives expert, to bring about a good result.

I like it when the train derails. The times I seem to be most at peace in my life are the most miserable, barren, and otherwise screwed up times. And I think it's because they derail the train. When the gods are pressing your face into the dirt, you know your place. Pushing my mind to and over the brink helps bring me to that place.

[Tb]

I like it when the train derails. The times I seem to be most at peace in my life are the most miserable, barren, and otherwise screwed up times. And I think it's because they derail the train. When the gods are pressing your face into the dirt, you know your place. Pushing my mind to and over the brink helps bring me to that place.

like being in the eye of the storm?
sitting there watching the ravaging wind all around you and feeling the calm.
The question is though, do you actively seek it or does it happen to you anyway?

May the force be with you
Tb