Shohei has decided to leave the priest training

[Dosho]

I think we should read Taigu's post carefully. For me the message is in the words, "MAYBE IT IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

And maybe it isn't.

I actually agree with Taigu's entire statement and don't believe he was telling people how to feel, but I think some might take "you all seem to attend a funeral" as criticizing them for expressing sadness. But, again, I may be wrong...and that's why I decided to ask.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Amelia]

I know that it's Shohei's business, but I think I just want to know if there is an issue within the Sangha, or if it is simply a change of heart.

[Nenka]

Taigu,

I think I understand what you are saying, but for newer folks it may sound like you are saying we should not allow any feelings of sadness or loss come to the surface. I certainly am still upset, but as time has passed I know that different is something to be embraced. Yet now, so soon after the public announcement, are you saying people shouldn't feel sad or have a sense of loss? Speaking only for myself, I would think it counterproductive to think of these feelings, at least for now, as a source of joy.

Gassho,
Dosho

I'm going to agree with this. This is a pretty serious piece of second-hand information; none of us (apparently) knows what happened--how exactly are we supposed to respond? One person has left training before without a word, essentially disappearing without a trace, and it appears to be happening again. So forgive us if we're a bit sad to seem to be losing someone who's been here for many years.

Gassho

Jen

[Amelia]

Nenka says what I feel better than I...

[Jinyo]

I'm going to agree with this. This is a pretty serious piece of second-hand information; none of us (apparently) knows what happened--how exactly are we supposed to respond? One person has left training before without a word, essentially disappearing without a trace, and it appears to be happening again. So forgive us if we're a bit sad to seem to be losing someone who's been here for many years.

Gassho

Jen

Jen thank you,

I agree with what you say.

Being relatively new here I have not had a close connection with Shohei but I did feel sad that his photo is no longer by his posts.

It seems to me that if a valued member of a sangha (or any close group) suddenly disappears without saying goodbye it will impact. That is not to demand an explanation - it just seems strange to me that the person wouldn't say goodbye themselves - that the news would be announced by proxy?

Anyway - perhaps this is a Zen thing and I'm missing a point.

Gassho

Willow

[Heishu]

Sadness and mourning, joy and happiness, we are dealing with a Brother who has chosen not to continue his training. Is this a funeral? Not for me. Is it a loss? Most certainly. When I posted my comment, I was reflecting how I feel about hearing of Shohei's decision to cease training as a Priest in this Sangha. I continue to respect Shohei's choice and I continue to wish him the best. One of the many things that I do appreciate about this Sangha is that we all really do care about each other. We share the good and the bad. Isn't this why we are members?

Gassho,
Heishu

[Jundo]

Since the Buddha's time, since Dogen's time, in monasteries in India or China or California, novice priests have sometimes left training or, due to some change in life, have gone on their way. It is fine, it is human. Stuff just happens.

And sometimes that winding path brings them back around, so Shohei knows he is always welcome here. It would not be true Training and Practice if people were not always free to leave ... or did not have to sometimes struggle with the commitment involved.

Here is the big departure scene from that corny Dogen movie ... (for about 5 minutes from about the 1:21:00 mark here, in this case due to a girl that a cold shower could not cure.) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TinmRC2BS00

I believe in tears AND celebration. Every moment of life is a time of celebration ... both the happy times and the sad.

Gassho, Jundo

[Taigu]

When a teacher is pointing, he is often provoking the dualistic mind. Very much like many of you, i experience a form of sadness ( you might not know about the weekly meetings we both had for 5 years) and, very much like Jundo, a form of joy too. You see, i was challenging the general tendency to go one way...
But it is true that some people don't really want to be challenged. I am sure that the people who could take my pointer in the depth of their heart could gradually come to a different understanding.

Be Well, and please, question relentlessly your old ways at looking at the world.

And don't expect me to agree with most of you. This is not my job.



Gassho

The proxy.

[Taigu]

Dear Willow, dear Jen,

And I don't know what happened as it was Shohei's choice to drop an email in the priests mailbox without providing any reason. I don't think he needs to, and I leave it to him to do so or not. What I can say is that this us very frequent on brick and mortar practice centers and as Jundo says stuff happens, people change and the show anyway goes on.
Shohei knows he is most welcome here and may come back anytime he wishes.

Gassho

Taigu

[Mp]

... the people who could take my pointer in the depth of their heart could gradually come to a different understanding.

Thank you Taigu. =)

Gassho
Shingen

[Shohei]

Hi all!
Forgive my late reply, I wanted to respond earlier but i messed up my account in revoking my own admin and training forum permissions, basically locking myself out of everything but private messages (doh)

Thank you for the concern and well wishes. I am doing fine, and I am still here, just not in the priest training. It was a heavy decision to make and one that had a tinge of sadness for me. That tinge was smaller than the "feelings" I had about not being fully with the training. Half in and half out.
I felt I could not be of service to folks if I cannot see through some of my own delusions.
While its true we are always a work in progress and delusions are endless, mine prevent me from seeing past the dark bit of the path, even though I am standing mid-day in a field. I understand this but yet I still fall into my old habits, I need to mature more and reflect longer.
This is all for personal reasons, nothing to do with Taigu, the training or any one else.

I am still sitting, sewing and will continue practice.

My deepest apologies to my Taigu, Jundo, the unsui and of course to the Sangha for the disturbance and disruption, this was not my intention.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program!

Gassho
Shohei

[Mp]

My deepest apologies

None needed my friend ... life is life, here we are, and here we go. =)

Gassho
Shingen

[Myoku]

I too feel you not have to appologize,
I know you did what you could and what you write about seeing to ones own delusions and mature, is very true, certainly for me,
thank you and Gassho
Myoku

[Yugen]

Shohei,
We really love you and care for you.

What you have described is the path I walk every day. I have many questions and doubts regarding my ability to be of service or use to anyone (no, I won't pull the "zazen is good for nothing" rabbit out of the hat here!), and I practice, just as you continue to do. We can continue to support one another with our presence.

Love and deep bows
Yugen

[Jinyo]

Thank you for your reply Taigu

Shohei - no explanation is needed - I think the members who know you simply wanted to wish you well on your path. I do understand (I hope) where Taigu is coming from. Making a decision that feels 'right' and is true to one's inner self is a cause for celebration.

I wish you some light on that dark bit of the path you speak of,

Gassho

Willow