Sudden and gradual enlightenment schools ?

[John Cloud]

Hi dear teacher Jundo and other teachers

I was have question about . Dose Soto belong to Sudden enlightenment school and gradual enlightenment school ?

So i said to my self is better to ask our teacher Jundo . but i can't access to treeleaf because problem in the SERVER of tapatalk .

So i searched in google about this . I found different views some said sudden other said gradual other said both .

I found book said that Dogen was opposed for sudden enlightenment school .
So soto belong to gradual enlightenment school .

But i am not sure until we listen to our teacher and teachers here ?

Gassho _/|\_

[Jundo]

Hi John,

The short answer is that ...

Some folks say that Soto is "sudden" and Rinzai is "gradual" ... because Soto folks suddenly realize again and again the Buddha in each instant beyond time, while Rinzai folks work on piercing Koans step by step.

Some folks say that Rinzai is "sudden" and Soto is "gradual" ... because Rinzai folks suddenly experience great momentless moments of dropping away ... while Soto practice fills one with dropping much as the mist will slowly dampen one's sleeves until all is soakinig wet (but Soto folks have such momentless great moments too, and Rinzai folks also experience the mist).

So most folks would say that Soto Practice and Rinzai Practice are both Sudden AND Gradual ... for in Koan Zazen one will suddenly realize again and again in big and small momentless moments the Buddha in each instant beyond time, yet the Wisdom and Compassion get into the bones gradually through a lifetime of refining and practice ... and in Shikantaza one will suddenly realize again and again in big and small momentless moments the Buddha in each instant beyond time, yet the Wisdom and Compassion get into the bones gradually through a lifetime of refining and practice ...

... and anyway, Buddha is beyond and right through small human measures of "sudden" or "gradual".

Does that help?

Gassho, J

[John Cloud]

Thank you very dear teacher Jundo
Yes it's very help .

Gassho _/|\_

[Troy]

Beautifully said Jundo