Seeing your true nature ?

[Myozan Kodo]

Great stuff!
Gassho
Myozan


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[Risho]

Gassho,

Risho

[Kyonin]

We sit. We let go of stuff.

And then we sit again.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Nengyo]

I'm not sure about all this true nature stuff, but I did pet a dog today. So, I have that going for me.

Well, that's enough philosophy for the day. I guess I should get the old zafu all fluffed up and ready for tonight's sit.

_/\_

[Joyo]

In my opinion, things like 'true nature' can not be fully understood in terms of thinking and philosophy. The must be felt, even if very hazily at first. I am not very familiar with the bodhidharma, but you should just let your true nature be your true nature. Just leave things as they are without adding judgements. Things just are. The more and more you sit zazen, the more and more this attitude will seep into your life. It is a very gradual process, but soon your whole life becomes like sitting (in a way).

So, I will (tentatively) say that you should not grasp onto this true nature and instead let it just exist. Let everything just be where it is, without adding or taking away. Letting sad times be sad, times of anger be times of anger (of course, still try to avoid anger, but accept it). It just is. Then, you will have your true nature.

Gassho and welcome,
Heion

This is very good, Heion. I have nothing to add, already much good advice given.

Gassho,
Joyo

[Joyo]

I'm not sure about all this true nature stuff, but I did pet a dog today. So, I have that going for me.

Well, that's enough philosophy for the day. I guess I should get the old zafu all fluffed up and ready for tonight's sit.

_/\_

awesome!!

Gassho,
Joyo

[Joryu]

Like Nameless John said, one does not just look at the map, but must walk the mountain trail ... all to realize that walking-mountain-man are one.

[Daitetsu]

Hi Jundo,

But other Zen Teachers (sometimes the very same Zen teacher ... see the Koan below) will warn that to think of a "thing" can be misleading.

This reminds me of an Alan Watts lecture where he said that it might be better to say "no Thingness" instead of nothingness.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Jundo]

This reminds me of an Alan Watts lecture where he said that it might be better to say "no Thingness" instead of nothingness.

Well, we can get lost in words and semantics here, but the Buddha warned against nihilism too (the belief that there is just nothing and no meaning), so we need to be careful here too. The world is like a dream, a bubble, a flash, yet there are all the things of the world too. So, many old Zen teachers might say that it is more "Thing No Thingness" (or "Non-thingness", which is not "no thingness" ... for there are all things of the world yet what thing there? ... form just precisely emptiness ... and not even that so do not even try to objectify it that much. Just Sit, pierce the Koan of Here Not Here. All just words, just scaffolding.

I like to refer to the flowing dance ... nothing to nail down yet constantly appearing as each and all ... all interconnected and interflowing ... a Dance of Wholeness ... (Just my own scaffolding, for the dance is not merely to be intellectually understood or written down on paper ... but rather the dance is to be danced, losing oneself in the dance) ...

These days, I like to try to explain the Buddhist concept of "Sunyata" (Emptiness) using the image of a .... 'Dance' ... 'Dancing' ... 'Dancers and Dancing' ...

A universe of dancers (including you and me, all beings) are danced up in this dance that the whole universe is dancing ... each dancer seemingly standing apart on her own two feet ... yet each dancer simultaneously seen as just the dance-dancing-the-dance. It is important to envision this "dance of all things" as leaving nothing out, and so all encompassing that we cannot even speak ... from each dancer's perspective ... of "before" the dance or "after" (such that each dancer is always dancing, right from the moment of her seeming birth to death. There is no dancer who is not dancing from the moment of becoming a dancer ... there is not "off stage" and taking a break ... not so long as we live and breathe anyway ... and no dancer apart from the dance or who is not now dancing.). There is nothing but the dance and the motion, the separation lost in a lively, enlivening, living blur ...

More here ...

Buddha-Basics (Part XVII) — The Dance of Emptiness

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7723-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-XVII%29-%C2%97-The-Dance-of-Emptiness

Gassho, J

[Daitetsu]

Hi Jundo,

Well, we can get lost in words and semantics here, but the Buddha warned against nihilism too (the belief that there is just nothing and no meaning), so we need to be careful here too. The world is like a dream, a bubble, a flash, yet there are all the things of the world too.

Yes, I totally agree, actually both are true at the same time - we should neither make it into a thing nor think of it as non-existence. (BTW: Watts did not just refer to one perspective in his lecture, he spoke about both aspects as well.)
Edit:
I think that Watts did not mean it in a nihilistic way: his term "No Thingness" (to my understanding) means that it is neither a thing nor nothing. IMHO it is a good try to put both perspectives under one hat. But of course expressions that I find helpful might be understood in another way or be even confusing to others. When it comes to that which cannot be described, words must fail, of course.

IMHO there is a great danger to see just one side/perspective - that's when people think that "anything goes" (or the other way round, that everything is meaningless anyway).

Thanks for your Dancing Metaphor, it has always been one of my favorites.


Gassho,

Daitetsu

[RichardH]

This famous line from Qingyuan Weixin (I know next to nothing about him ) is tossed around so much it is a cliche, but it still has a really intimate familiarity.

Before I had studied Ch'an for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and rivers as rivers. When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have got its very substance I am at rest. For it's just that I see mountains once again as mountains, and rivers once again as rivers.

...and IMHE it is not just rivers and mountains, but every aspect of ordinary living and loving and measuring and moving, every little value... nothing is changed in practice, not a hair. At the same time it is a whole new world that is vivid and open and free. Just continuing practicing ...who know where it goes or doesn't? I have no idea.

Gassho Daizan

[Tiwala]

This is the ultimate meaning of killing Buddha, no witness needed
This is your face before your parents 's birth
A scoop of sea water
Eyeballs into eyeballs
And yet don' even say this
When it is made real
Two bulls enter the stream
To vanish


Gassho


T.

Jesus, Taigu, this is brilliant.