Sweeping..... under the carpet?

[Amelia]

Kantai, and John, if I may speak for John:

I think he means that to react to something is to react to it habitually, without presence of mind. Honestly, though, respond and react mean the same, so it's all about context.

[Kantai]

Thank you Amelia for the clarification.
I´m a bit uncertain with the English language sometimes.
John I didn´t mean to criticize your post in any way, it was more of a language thing, wondering if it was some other meaning with the words that I missed.

Gassho
Kantai

[Kantai]

Aha!
Now I get it
Found this:

http://www.serenejourney.com/2009/06/do-you-react-or-respond/

Gassho, Kantai

[Genki]

Aha!
Now I get it
Found this:

http://www.serenejourney.com/2009/06/do-you-react-or-respond/

Gassho, Kantai

Wow! This was really helpfull for me.
Thank you Kantai.

Gassho
Genki


Björn

[Ishin]

Thank you all. Jundo I love that picture of "wet Buddha", worth a thousand words.

C

[Troy]

Sweeping..... under the carpet?

When we are not sitting, I think there are times it is ok to think about our problems. Not with the intention of solving them but with intention of acknowledging them and learning to be ok with ourselves despite our issues. It is a process of accepting ourselves for who we are. Then the problems seem to work themselves out. I will say over thinking our problems and spending a lot of time doing so can cause confusion and be counter productive. Zazen is teaching me to let go of problems much easier than in the past and I do not dwell on every little issue, but there are times some issues will not be still and facing them with a little extra focus has been helpful to me. I look at as a matter of finding the middle path. Please understand I do not claim to have the correct answer. As I grow in my practice, maybe this will change but it is where I am at right now.

[Jundo]

When we are not sitting, I think there are times it is ok to think about our problems. Not with the intention of solving them but with intention of acknowledging them and learning to be ok with ourselves despite our issues. It is a process of accepting ourselves for who we are. Then the problems seem to work themselves out. I will say over thinking our problems and spending a lot of time doing so can cause confusion and be counter productive. Zazen is teaching me to let go of problems much easier than in the past and I do not dwell on every little issue, but there are times some issues will not be still and facing them with a little extra focus has been helpful to me. I look at as a matter of finding the middle path. Please understand I do not claim to have the correct answer. As I grow in my practice, maybe this will change but it is where I am at right now.

And I want to be VERY VERY CLEAR about something:

Even "off the cushion" when I think about something ... how to solve a problem at work, whether to move house, whether my feeling of sadness or (as you talk about Troy) shyness in a situation is justified ... I NON-THINK IT! Oh, I try to not fall into extremes, recognize excess, not wallow in emotions and become a prisoner of extreme thoughts, anger, greed and such. However, basically, this is normal thinking about stuff like all folks do about their choices and problems.

What does that mean, to "NON=THINK" it? Well, I think about the problem in the normal way ... he said she said, I love this, hate that, blah blah blah, I'm right he is wrong ... blah blah blah, trying to plan a way to handle the mess. However, simultanesouly (as if seeing one way by one eye, another way by Buddha eye) ... I bring the same mind of Shikataza to the process. Same as on the cushion. I drop the need, the judgments, the feeling of lack etc. etc.

THINKING-NON-THINKING the problem!

And in most cases, a great Peace and Clarity comes even to the hardest questions.

Now, I do not mean that I do so for every decision in life ... what socks to wear today, whether to buy peas in the grocery ... etc,. but it is wonderful for the hard or big decisions and questions.

Nor will I claim that this method always presents a clear choice on what to do, that it "solves the problem" and makes it vanish. IT DOES NOT! On the other hand, quite frequently IT DOES!

And what is more ... even when the clear choice still is muddled, and the terrible problem still remains terrible ... simultaneously, there is Peace and Illumination and Muddle and Terrible as a Beautiful Whole!


Gassho, Jundo

[Troy]

Sweeping..... under the carpet?

Thank you for your words Jundo. I agree with you 100%. We may be saying the same thing but with different words? Or maybe not? During Zazen itself, the thoughts come and go with out clinging. The thoughts are there for a brief time and then gone. During non-Zazen times, I do allow myself to think more in depth but in a manner that is about acknowledging mysef/issues I am having. I do it in a way that is accepting/at peace not in a way that is judging. I do it in a way that seeks understanding. I call it the opposite of Zazen because I am actually having a thought process. I called it the middle way (probably the wrong word choice as that can have other connotations) because it is in between non-thinking and thinking too much. When I recognize myself and am accepting of myself, then I am able to let go of the pain. It is a non-clinging and letting go process kind of like being on the cushion but in slow motion. It is like Zazen but it is not Zazen. It is not fighting my shyness. It is recognizing it and letting go. I don't do this for every issue, but sometimes it helps me. Maybe later when I have grown more in my practice I will not feel the need to do this. I am not suggesting this as a replacement of sitting. I sit Zazen everyday. Zazen is one of the most important things I do in my life. My head is starting to spin a little thinking about it all which is usually an indicator I have more to learn and to let it go for a while.

[Tiwala]

Hi Jundo. Once again, I come for confirmation of my understanding.

Can this non-thinking thing be described as thinking through your problem, but somewhere, there's this gut feeling that it doesn't really matter? Because everything is swimming in the wonderful abode of Buddha? Or maybe my Catholic side would say, nothing can separate us from the Love of God and we are continually saved and united with Christ over and over again from beginning to forever or something like that. So what do we do in response? Chop wood, carry water (think about your problem) with Joy and maybe also joy?

Gassho, Ben

[Ishin]

Hi Jundo. Once again, I come for confirmation of my understanding.

Can this non-thinking thing be described as thinking through your problem, but somewhere, there's this gut feeling that it doesn't really matter? Because everything is swimming in the wonderful abode of Buddha? Or maybe my Catholic side would say, nothing can separate us from the Love of God and we are continually saved and united with Christ over and over again from beginning to forever or something like that. So what do we do in response? Chop wood, carry water (think about your problem) with Joy and maybe also joy?

Gassho, Ben

Hi Ben

As I understand it, when we sit in shikantaza; we sit. It is not an effort to try to sit WITH a problem, but instead an effort to radically stop all thoughts of anything. Perhaps better expressed as not holding onto any thoughts, whether they be problems, excitements, creations, illusions, etc. But in stepping into this space we sometimes can discover that what we THOUGHT was a problem, is only a problem from a very limited small me perspective. And YES, we can see everything as swimming in the wonderful abode of Buddha. We can see things as sorrowful, problematic, wonderful, stressful, but at the same time recognize that this is just ONE eye looking at the issue. There is another eye too which can see things from the Buddha view, everything just as it is, nothing to add, nothing to take away.

Gassho C

[Tiwala]

Thank you, Clark. That sounds like what I do, except "stopping thinking". I prefer not engaging thoughts, letting it settle. Today's zazen was kind of boring, actually, but that's ok.

Gassho, Ben

[senryu]

In my case,
sometimes when I had problems or hard situations to solve, I feel that the solution is there, but I don´t have the force to take a decision that respond adequately (in my experience there are not many options: to accept, to wait, to renounce or to make a gesture). In those situations I try to don´t pay many attention to the thousands of ideas that came in zazen, but often I receive something more general after my sitting. Something like courage or determination or an unknown undefined energy that finally help me to take the right decision. Something that I didn´t search, but I found. Logically the decision taken is not always the best, but as Joko Beck sensei said “Your decisions are your masters”, and I learn from the consequences.
Gassho
Senryu