8 Form Moving Meditation

[Jundo]

Hi Daijo,

Good question, so let me try a fair answer.

In life, getting up from Zafu, we have 24 hours filled with things we do ... work, taking care of the kids, playing sports, hobbies, going to the doctor, thinking about which can of peaches to buy in the store, just goofing off, watching movies. That is life! That is also the reason that some of our members can combine Zazen with their other personal beliefs and practices ... no problem! So, some can also go to their Catholic Church on Sunday, chant to Amida if they wish, read Camus, go to their "Atheists of America" meeting, practice Tai Chi or Yoga ... no problem! All is "Zazen" in its wider meaning when known as such ... all expressions of the Wholeness of Emptiness!

However, here in this Dojo (Practice Place) we are trying to Teach and Practice a few special skills (or "non-skills" as I like to say). Basically, this is the art of Shikantaza, something very subtle because it is perhaps one of the few actions (or "non-actions") in which the goal ("non-goal") is to be for a time sitting beyond gain and goal, beyond judgments, in the complete Wholeness and non-seeking of just this moment, merging into all conditions yet free of such, "just sitting" as Buddha sitting Buddha .... Buddha Buddhaing Buddha.

So many forms of "Eastern" or "Buddhist" Meditation are based on some "gaining" idea ... gaining some "special state", gaining "perpetual joy joy bliss bliss", gaining some power, gaining "Enlightenment". Shikantaza is quite unique in that regard (though I just posted some Tibetan Dzogchen teachings on another thread that are like this too http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...gchen-Teaching). In Shikantaza, one encounters "Special States" that are sometimes very unusual yet frequently tediously ordinary, a "Bliss" so "Blissful" that it holds both happy times and sad and one need not even feel "blissful" much of the time, an "Enlightenment gained" in the radical releasing of all "gaining".

It is an art to focus on, and is the same reason that we focus on but a few core practices related to such (Although "Aikido" and "Karate" may both be wondrous arts suited to different people, nonetheless one does not teach "Karate" when teaching "Aikido" in the "Aikido" Dojo.)

To the extent that "8 Form Moving Meditation" as taught Master Sheng Yen is focused on feeling special states of bliss and such, well, it is Karate in our Aikido Dojo. (It is the same reason we do not Practice "Koan Centered Zazen" in the Rinzai way in our little Dojo) To the extent "8 Form Moving Meditation" is just a stretching exercise, we might show a bit how to do it. It is then much like Yoga in the West: If it is basically just a way to stretch and move the body in order to loosen up for sitting, I am fine with it. If the Yoga is taught in a traditional Indian form with Chakras, Gurus and Vishnu ... well, it may be a lovely Practice for some, but it is Karate in our Aikido Dojo.

It is also the reason that Taigu told me last night that, while he encourages people to look into "Alexander Technique" as good to "loosen up" the body and help balance and flexibility, he will not teach it here in detail. It would be distracting from our core Art.

And before you ask: I probably could change the "8 Form Moving Meditation" into a flavor of "Shikantaza", making it a way of moving with a sense of non-moving and non-gaining. Likewise, I can change "football" into Shikantaza by giving up all idea of "winning vs. losing" and any score to attain! However, it might not then be "football", and trying to play football here might just be distracting! **

Does that make sense?

Gassho, J

** By the way, in fact, if one masters Shikantaza, one can come to play Football (Big "F") that holds and embodies "football" (little "f"). What is that? It is "winning or losing" all while simultaneously dropping all measurements of "win" or "loss", scoring points even while knowing there is "nothing ultimately to gain". Nonetheless, we do not practice our football passes and field goals here because this is an Aikido Dojo, and putting Goal Posts in the middle of our Tatami Mats could be dangerous.

[Myosha]

Thank you.


Gassho,
Myosha

[Daijo]

It does make sense. However, I probably should have asked the question in a separate thread as to not attach it to this set of exercises. I don't want it to seem like I'm drinking the Shen Yen blissful Kool-aid. My question was really in a more general sense. Forget Eastern religions and all of the hocus pocus stuff. Forget 8 form moving meditation (I hope to never type those words together again ).

The question had little to do with the exercises, I was just using them as an example. My question really...If I am doing a task, without attaching to the ends, the reward, the means, not rejecting any displeasure etc...then is it not still the essence of our shikantaza? Chanting, without attachment, or aversions, isn't it the same as sitting without attachments or aversions? Isn't it all "Just Sitting"? If done with the right understanding.

That's what I'm digging at. Forget these silly exercises.

Gassho,

Daijo

[Jundo]

The question had little to do with the exercises, I was just using them as an example. My question really...If I am doing a task, without attaching to the ends, the reward, the means, not rejecting any displeasure etc...then is it not still the essence of our shikantaza? Chanting, without attachment, or aversions, isn't it the same as sitting without attachments or aversions? Isn't it all "Just Sitting"? If done with the right understanding.

Yes, I believe anything in life ... any action ... is "Shikantaza" if done with such attitude.

However, I want to modify what you write a bit.

Our way can be about "dropping all goals" to the marrow ... EVEN AS we have very strong goals.

Our Way is to drop all aversions and attractions, likes and dislikes completely ... EVEN AS we have so many aversions and attractions, likes and dislikes. I can be strongly displeased AND beyond all displeasure AT ONCE, AS ONE!

As if seeing life one way out of the left eye, another way our of the right (Buddha) eye. As if experiencing life one way on mental 'channel 1' and another way on 'channel 2' ... but with 1 and 2 all blended together and separate ("not 1, not 2" as we say in Zen).

So, when I change baby diapers I resist, I find it unpleasant and smelly, and my definite goal is to get the baby clean and the job done. Part of me really dislikes the job. That is to be human, and if I did not have such attitude that baby would never get changed, and I would not care if she did or not!

On the other hand, I simultaneously sense a realm of a kind of Pureness beyond "clean or dirty", with nothing to attain or in need of fixing. I also sense the very act of diaper changing as a sacred act ... Buddha changing Buddha diapers filled with Buddha!

I experience both ways of diaper changing AT ONCE (kind of a "diaper changing-non-changing!" )

Shikantaza is our sitting that "other hand", as the "Buddha eye" beyond attaining or goal. But Shikantaza is ALSO actions in life which have goals and no goals at once! We learn to live with one foot in the world of busy men and women with "places to go and people to see", and one foot in the Buddha Land where there is no place in need of going, and every step is a Total Arrival.

I hope that is kinda clear. We tend to avoid Practices in this Dojo which are too filled with a "need to get some where, need to attain something" flavor, especially if they distract from our Shikantaza ways.

Gassho, J

[Daijo]

I hope that is kinda clear. We tend to avoid Practices in this Dojo which are too filled with a "need to get some where, need to attain something" flavor, especially if they distract from our Shikantaza ways.

Gassho, J

Yes, very clear.

Thank you,

Gassho,

Daijo

[Ricky Ramos]

Thank you, this confirms what I shared in another thread. I guess I'm learning!!! Gassho

[Jinyo]

Hello there - I have only just come back to this thread.

There is a new video on You Tube (posted a couple of days ago) that shows the exercises. There is no mention of 'bliss' etc. They are very simple
physio/Thai Chi type stretches - no need to call them anything really - just basic stretches like what I've been doing for years to get my body straightened out
in the morning

I think perhaps the problem is we attach too much to labels. What we might once have labelled 'keep fit' we now call something else and add a lot of theories about energy circulation and possibly - dharma bliss - as well. But really it's just moving the body/relaxation. Little children run freely around and make a lot of these movements quite naturally.

Gassho

Willow

[Daijo]

Yeah, I only posted the description containing bliss and ease in every moment because I thought it was a ridiculous statement. I got a chuckle from it, but I think now, I should have left it as "stretching". There are quite a few video tutorials showing the movements, I just thought it would be nice if I showed them. Maybe I'll just post one of the other videos.

But after all of this, I'm finding one that guarantees enlightenment!

Gassho,

Daijo

[Jundo]

I was looking at some videos on Youtube, and it seems very close in flavor to Tai Chi. Any Practice that gets us up, moving and bending can't be bad for us.

Gassho, J