Avoiding Dualism in the communication age

[Daitetsu]

Hi Daijo,

I can fully relate to how you feel.
One of my relatives has very, very (very!) conservative opinions and of course she likes to share them at any possible opportunity. Very often she is full of hatred.
I remember a few years ago at Christmas time that I got verbally attacked by her via FB, just because I wished everybody "Great Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". Just to give you an example...
So we "clashed" several times on FB, but then I thought about it:

1) Years ago she had not been that bitter. Somehow certain events in her life made her like this. Someone who is so angry actually suffers.
2) It is almost impossible to change someone's strong believes by just discussing them via the internet where there is an "audience". People tend to stick to their opinions, because they consider it as a sign of weakness to change their mind. (Although actually the opposite is true - we must always be open!)
3) I know she has also nice sides (almost everyone has).

So I saw the futility in reacting by discussing. I chose to ignore certain types of FB entries, avoided talking with her about certain topics, and bit my tongue (quite often).
This approach has been working for almost a year now.
And if I feel the urge to write something, I take a deep breath and think "Is it really worth wasting my time with this? Life is short, it can be over any minute - how do I want to spend my time?"

Actually the thought of time/life swiftly passing by can also be used in many other cases for our benefit. It's a strong motivator for me.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Fugu]

Absolutely wonderful thread, and just what I needed to hear tonight.

Before I found Treeleaf, I read and posted on some other Buddhist forums. I was totally stunned to get put down and made fun of. In reading in more depth, I found language and attitudes that just knocked my socks off. I can't even hint at what was said. I got disillusioned and depressed. Decided that if that was what Buddhism was, I wanted no part of it. Then Alex mentioned Treeleaf and I followed him.

I know I am ultra-sensitive and fragile right now, but I've had a serious illness and it's taking everything I've got to work on recovering. I've got to concentrate on putting good stuff into my head. Treeleaf has never let me down. I come on here at night, in a down mood and I always find the exact thing I need to hear to get myself back up again. So THANK YOU, Treeleaf. Gassho, gassho, gassho.

And thanks for this thread. I really needed to hear I'm not the only one getting offended (and wondering how to sit with it) in cyber-space.

Gassho.

Lee

[Nameless]

I think Facebook is very similar to road rage. When people are in their cars, they feel invincible, cursing at other drivers, giving them the finger, and so on. You never see this behavior among pedestrians. I mean, you wouldn't call someone a"%%%*** idiot" if they were taking up too much aisle in the grocery store. But if it were the parking lot and you were in cars, it's as if there are no social constraints. Facebook, or other internet forums seem to provide people with a similar sense of omnipotence.

That's very true Daijo! Perhaps its because there are few consequences to acting like an ass online? Also, it can be a bit more intimidating being it the company of others and having these same discussions, even if those we're communicating with aren't intimidating in the slightest. This is a great thread by the way. Awesome responses.

On and offline, it can be difficult dealing with someone who aggressively opposes our views on things. I remind myself, "Do not be attached to my views, See both sides of the issue." Many times, even if I disagree with someone I can still see how they'd think as they do. Many times I'll say as much. "It is and it isn't." Even that gets some people going. "Make a stand man! No, 'It might be this or it might be that,'" "I'm not saying it might be, I'm saying it is this and that at the same time." At that point many just write me off as a nutcase, which is fine with me. Try to remind myself to even take insults in stride; to remember that they are only insulting an idea, not "me."

Find it's skillful just to avoid politics all together haha. In the rare case when I don't walk the zen razor between opposing views, I try to help ease the suffering of another, such as in racist, sexist, and otherwise un-compassionate views. In those cases (really in all cases) we can only speak skilfully and kindly, try to benefit the "other person," by showing how damaging their views are to themselves and others, and then smile, gassho and move on.

Gassho,
John

[Jishin]

I don't like to hurt and arguments can be painful. I just try to avoid them whenever I can. I am always right (and wrong at once) anyway.:-)

Gassho, Jishin

[Jundo]

Yes, people have opinions and say all kinds of things in the world of politics. It is no different in any place, any time ... even back in old China and Japan. Speak if there is something in need of saying, but speak your peace gently, in soft language. To the rest, say "Is that so?", and move on.

There is probably no convincing folks of one's opinions anyway, no matter. (That is a lesson it took me many years, family dinners with the uncles, and several Presidential elections, to learn).

I saw another funny cartoon recently about how Buddhists argue ...



Gassho, J

PS - Don't talk about "religion" either ... even with other Buddhists! The above cartoon has some fact to it. Buddhist can get just as up in arms when their religious beliefs and views are challenged ... and stick a thin veneer of politeness on it. (Sometimes the politeness drops away, as I have found out over the years.) That is one reason our Forum works, I feel, due in part to one of the few "rules" we have around here :

The only 'rule' on the Forum, besides "Just Sitting" Zazen each day, is to be kind to each other and mutually maintain “gentle speech” in all communication, even when voices disagree on hot issues. Perhaps more than anything, this allows a warm, welcoming atmosphere for new and old, where people can open up without fear.

[Guest]

Whenever I feel a conversation could lead to an argument I am usually honest. I say "I am sorry. I do not wish to argue. I like our conversations better. Lets talk about something else."

And I try to always think about what I am going to say three times before I say it, write it or type it.

Gassho
Bobby

[Nenka]

I've found this blog post very helpful for dealing with all the shit, trolling, and bad vibes on the internet, not to mention real life. Maybe you guys will be interested in it too.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/07/how-big-is-your-circle-of-control/

Gassho

Jen

[TimF]

Today, a Facebook friend put up a post about how letting 500 Syrian asylum seekers into the UK will mean less jobs and houses for British citizens and more crowded healthcare. I started to write a comment about how these people were fleeing atrocities but remembered this is someone currently going through a hard time on many fronts so chose to delete instead.

This sounds like one of my family members and a family friend, both of whom I have watched deteriorate into very angry and hateful people due to a lack of employment. I have walked in their shoes before, and have had to remind myself that anger towards others is not going to solve my problems.

Empathy seems to be the best way for me to understand the responses that others have towards differing situations. I put myself in "their shoes" the best that I can so I can attempt to feel it from their vantage point. I used to be a political blogger (yikes!), and the anger I was experiencing actually took a toll on my health. My blood pressure went way up and I was sick all the time. Since giving up the blog (almost as tough as when I quit smoking 12 years ago!), my health has improved and enabled me to live a life more meaningful than it was when it was controlled by the rants of myself and others. Just like the article Jen directed to, these were merely concerns, and not things I had control over.

Gassho,
Tim

[Daijo]

Thank you all for this conversation. Each moment is every ounce of our practice and should be practiced diligently.

Gassho,

Daijo

[Mp]

Speak if there is something in need of saying, but speak your peace gently, in soft language. To the rest, say "Is that so?", and move on.

This has been a wonderful post and thank you all for your insightful views. =)

Gassho
Shingen

[cgcumber]

I mean, would this be wrong speech? Because this is sort of what I feel like saying....
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1597[/ATTACH]

I'm really glad I wasn't drinking anything when I clicked on this.

More seriously, though, I understand where you're coming from, Daijo, both in terms of some of the "friends" one can accumulate on Facebook, and in general the tone of people who comment online. I'm an editorial page editor for a smallish newspaper, so I'm at the center of a maelstrom of opinions. And while it doesn't quite equate to what you're dealing with, maybe I can share something similar, and we can at least empathize together.

One big debate in the news industry right now is how to handle those online comments, which are mainly anonymous. While anonymity can be a valuable tool that allows people to talk freely in a way that they're unable to for whatever reason, the downside is it allows people to talk freely. What depresses me is the universal level of vitriol that most online commenters spill so easily from behind that LCD screen. And I know that many who do probably have family, friends, are members of clubs and associations, go to church, have jobs, and are, in so many words, ordinary, law-abiding citizens who wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight. (Yes, I totally ripped off Jay Z's "99 problems..." right there.) It's disheartening. This is what people are like when they express their "true" selves, their egos, when the mask is off? As Oscar Wilde said so accurately: "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Given the lowest denominator level of our national discourse -- and this relates to your friend on Facebook -- what they say and we hear publicly is bad enough. that people have no qualms sharing thoughts of the vilest kind when alone and safely unknown -- that's more than depressing. It's terrifying. I'm not sure what it's symptomatic of or, what's causing it, or how to fix it -- not that any of those things are possible. It's suffering on a massive scale.

But you know what? I only have responsibility for my own actions, my own thoughts, my own practice in the zendo of the world. I can only cultivate my own light of compassion, my own realization of oneness. I can't do that for anyone else. The best I can do is acknowledge the feelings that arise in myself in reaction, sit with that feeling and let it be. And when these people try to engage me, I find silence, acceptance and then letting go is the most powerful response. That's easier said than done.

[Daisho]

Shokai, much metta to Lillian and to you. When you told about her self imposed speech therapy and the request for peanut butter, I knew she was going into surgery with a strong spirit sprinkled with a sense of humor. I'm sitting for you both in a few minutes.

[Daijo]

So many great responses. I thank you all.

Daijo

[Matt]

This thread has been helpful to me as well, as this is something I have struggled with. Gassho, Matt J

[bya]

Hello everybody. I switched off Facebook one year ago or so, but recently I came back to it. Discussion on Facebook are really a delicate matter, in my humble opinion.
Facebook (but the same thing could be said for every other social network where people appear with their real names) is a weird place: if you discuss with a friend about which is the fastest car of the world and, for example, he says that you are not well informed about some new models, even your mother or the girl that you loved twenty years ago would now know his opinion about you.
So we could call it 'Facebook Roshi'. We face every little refraction of our ego, each one living (in our opinion) behind the eyes of a different person of our life.
And the same thing is valid when we 'attack' someone else... We are not telling a friend that she or he is not 'well informed', we are saying this thing to her or him in front of his family, friends, work colleagues... Hard times coming!

Gassho.