Karate vs. Aikido?

[Fugu]

"Yes, it is another lovely approach ... Karate to our Aikido. All good Ways, but sometimes quite different. "

The above was posted by Jundo in my thread on How Long Do You Sit?

??? This surprised me. I would think Zen is more karate-like, and Vipassana (the method talked about in the book I read) would be more like Aikido (a thought arises and you bend softly and let it pass on by).

This opens a touchy can of worms for me, since now my only contact with the outside world is the internet, and I see so many 'Buddhist' sites preach the eight-fold path and then throw Right Speech very easily to the wind. (This is not a comment on Jundo's words, just an explanation of how sensitive I currently am, and maybe prone to over-reacting.)

But I digress: from what I know and what I have read about Zen, the Dharma combat and life-style of serious Zen study sounds more to me to be similar to Karate. Can some of you put this in different words so I can look at it from another angle?

Gassho

Fugu

[Kokuu]

Hi Fugu

Often Jundo compares Zen to football or something else. I am not sure his analogy was meant to be taken so literally.

Dharma combat (shosan) is something mostly done in Rinzai Zen and that form of Zen is probably more like Karate, going at things with force, than the often more gentle but persistent (but nonetheless effective) Soto style.

Gassho
Andy

[Jundo]

Hi Fugu,

Well, Buddhism comes in many flavors, and Zen Buddhism comes in many flavors within flavors. Almost as many flavors as their are Teachers! Many beautiful paths, each suited to different feet. I would not get too caught up in images and analogies.

However, like many newcomers to Practice, it might help you to have some introduction to the various flavors of Buddhism and Zen Buddhism. So, here is some reading on that ... although each article is very general, and often paints with a too broad brush.

eight types of enlightenment

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6567-Special-reading-eight-types-of-enlightenment

ONCE BORN TWICE BORN ZEN (Part 1)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6514-SPECIAL-READING-ONCE-BORN-TWICE-BORN-ZEN-%28Part-1%29

(more) once born twice born zen

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6539-Special-reading-%28more%29-once-born-twice-born-zen

All lovely ways ... precisely the same, although sometimes very different. Often different, yet just the same.

Gassho, J

[Neika]

I have spent the past 30+ years studying martial arts, including both Karate and Aikido, and my opinion is that martial arts of any style are just like zen. You get out what you put in; and your preconceptions will color your practice and your interpretation of the practice until you let go and simply practice without letting yourself get in the way. At this point, you tend to find that there really isn't as much difference between Aikido and Karate as you think. Outward appearances tend to belie what is going on within. Our practice, any practice, is just like that.

[Myosha]

Thank you.


Gassho,
Edward

[Fugu]

Jundo,

Thank you very much for the material to study. And Andy, good point......I am taking everything I read on the internet 100% literally, and without having a real, stable person to bounce it off of, I am just getting confused, and hurt. Think my practice is bringing up some old baggage.

Again, thank you Jundo, and please don't be offended if I have more questions.......?

Gassho,

Fugu

[Jundo]

Again, thank you Jundo, and please don't be offended if I have more questions.......?

Hah, it would be offensive if there were no questions!

Gassho, J

[Kyonin]

Hi Fugu.

I trained martial arts for almost 20 years. Both Karate-Do and Aikido.

I can say that even if you wish to separate them both and compare them to practice, I found they are pretty much a part of life.

Both have a lot of wisdom and teachings if you let your mind really understand what your body is doing.

My Aikido Sensei would never speak about philosophy or tradition. All she said was "your mind will understand what you learn in the Dojo. Fall. Rise. Move and flow. Do it for years. It's all you need to know. It's all part of life".

After all this time, I agree.

What my body learned while hitting the ground or getting kicked in the ribs, translated as a different and insightful approach to life.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Yugen]

As a martial artist/zen practitioner/human being (is there any distinction?) I have to agree with my brother Kyonin - getting kicked in the ribs (physically and metaphorically) encourages paying attention to what life has to say to us!

Deep bows
Yugen

[Fugu]

Hi Fugu.

I trained martial arts for almost 20 years. Both Karate-Do and Aikido.

I can say that even if you wish to separate them both and compare them to practice, I found they are pretty much a part of life.

Both have a lot of wisdom and teachings if you let your mind really understand what your body is doing.

My Aikido Sensei would never speak about philosophy or tradition. All she said was "your mind will understand what you learn in the Dojo. Fall. Rise. Move and flow. Do it for years. It's all you need to know. It's all part of life".

After all this time, I agree.

What my body learned while hitting the ground or getting kicked in the ribs, translated as a different and insightful approach to life.

Gassho,

Kyonin

Kyonin:

'Fall. Rise. Move and flow.' That brought tears to my eyes.......it says simply what I am now facing.....the repair of body and mind. Thank you.

Gassho,

Fugu

[Kyotai]

A talk on comparing martial arts Kata and Zazen.

http://youtu.be/EWEfN6R6mxA

Gassho

Shawn

[Myosha]

Thank you Shawn.

Worthwhile talks.


Gassho,
Myosha

[Mp]

Wonderful share Shawn, thank you. =)

Gassho
Shingen

[Kyonin]

If only I had view this video back then...

Thank you Shawn. Lots to think about.

Gassho,

Kyonin