Buddha may be 300 years older than thought

[Ryumon]

Interesting article in the Guardian today:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/01/buddha-birth-archaeology-nepal-durham

"Last week it emerged that a team led by Coningham, a professor of archaeology and pro-vice-chancellor at Durham University, had made a startling discovery about the date of the Buddha's birth, one that could rewrite the history of Buddhism. After a three-year dig on the site of the Maya Devi temple at Lumbini in Nepal, Coningham and his team of 40 archaeologists discovered a tree shrine that predates all known Buddhist sites by at least 300 years."

I don't know anything about the dates at which the Pali Canon were set down, but if there are firm dates for that, then this means a much longer gap between Buddha's death and their recording.

[Jundo]

Hi Kirk,

This came up on another thread this week. Most expert reviews seem pretty skeptical of the report so far, and believe the media is hyping.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?11677-Article-Religious-roots-of-Buddha-s-birthplace&p=116372&viewfull=1#post116372

Gassho, J

[Myosha]

Q: How is Buddha and media bullshit different?

A: Buddha is beginingless and endless; media is stupid and endless.^^


Gassho,
Edward

[Myozan Kodo]

Hi,
It is not unusual for earlier religious sites to be appropriated by new religious movements. That could be what has been found: a sacred site of tree worship that predates the Buddha. Maybe Siddhartha choose an already ancient sacred site to sit?
Gassho
Myozan

[Hans]

Hello Myozan,

that was my first guess too. Some neo pagans exaggerate the number of Christian churches built on more ancient sacred sites, but on the whole this is true. This kind of building tactic has been used numerous times throughout history and throughout different cultures and has always been very successful, because most peoples didn't and don't care about theology, but they get really upset if you change the festival calendar too much or change the venue for worhipping "the sacred"

Gassho,


Hans Chudo Mongen

[Taigu]

who cares?

Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

you would tell me that Buddha never existed...It's OK.

one bright moon has no name, no place.

gassho

T.

[Myozan Kodo]

Hi Taigu,
You're right. And I guess the Buddha (as we think of him) never existed! :-)

Gassho
Myozan

[Taigu]

as we think of him...this is the key.

gassho

T.

[Taigu]

older, younger
Times or Guardian
right or left
...

nice haiku

T.

[Myozan Kodo]

Perfect symmetry too:
Old/ Times/ right
Young/ Guardian/ left
Gassho
Myozan

[Ishin]

My thoughts exactly. Buddha is timeless. And didn't Buddha teach that there are many Buddhas out there Past and future. Space and time is a big place
Gassho
C

[Risho]

who cares?

Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

you would tell me that Buddha never existed...It's OK.

one bright moon has no name, no place.

gassho

T.
T.

Gassho,... seriously Gassho.

Part of me is interested in this sort of stuff from a historical perspective. I've been reading Stephen Batchelor's Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist and Karen Armstrong's Buddha (just started that one actually).

And I have to say, it is very interesting to read about Shakyamuni's life and how it fits in with his teachings, and how much of a radical he was at his time. I mean, when your culture believes in a plethora of gods and superstition, and you come forth with a philosophy and practice so foreign to that and dedicate your life to it.. something no one did before him, it's incredible.

At the same time, I realized how much I had an image of the Buddha in my mind that had to adhere to my ideals. I didn't realize how much of a false idol I had set up for myself until I read Batchelor's book. I viscerally felt disappointed at one point when I heard about how Mahakyasappa sort of took over even though Ananda had been with the Buddha for years, and Mahakyasappa sort of just appeared and told a story of how the Buddha transmitted his old robe to him. After I got past my own preconceived BS, I realized and something that Batchelor points out that without there actually being someone to take over that these teachings would have never likely reached us... me.

I like to fit things into these neat boxes, and I honestly step away (more like run away as a coward) when they don't match what I want. It's sort of a spoiled child syndrome. I felt this desperation, like "what am I doing?" The sangha helps reinforce what I'm doing.

I'm sorry for the rambling, but these topics hit home. I think from that history is very important, at least for me. I have a habit of idolizing things; to use Jundo's favorite word, I can be very susceptible to the "hagiographies" of these old zen/buddhist teachers. It's so clean and pristine, these old stories. It's easy to want to practice when you think of imaginary mountains with god-like robots meditating in them vs. having to practice right here, now, with the bills and the dog shitting in the house, etc.

I didn't realize that I had this huge, fake Buddha there all along in my head. I don't want to be dramatic but this idolizing can be very dangerous for me; like I said, I caught myself in my self-sabotage if that makes sense.

Anyway,

Gassho,

Risho

[Joyo]

who cares?

Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

you would tell me that Buddha never existed...It's OK.

one bright moon has no name, no place.

gassho

T.

I totally agree, Taigu. I feel the same about Jesus. In fact, i feel way more of a connection to Jesus now, than I did as a Christian. It's the story, the teaching that has more meaning than what is true or not.

Gassho,
Treena

[Rich]

Whether its 2500 or 3000 years, the amazing thing is that the Buddha's teaching and practice have been passed to us.



Kind regards. /\

[kidbuda]

who cares?

Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

you would tell me that Buddha never existed...It's OK.

one bright moon has no name, no place.

gassho

T.

WOW! loved this Taigu. Thanks.

I feel the same about this matter.

Gassho

kb