Need Tips to sit in Full Lotus & Hand Mudra question

[Ricky Ramos]

Sorry I didn't want to be disrespectful in any way by not finishing my posts with saying Gassho, nor by not having my picture in my avatar. Will try to put a picture in my avatar as soon as I get home and will be more careful with the courtesy in this forum. Gassho


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[Koshin]

Oh no, it is not so easy my friend, you now have to pay with something for such grave offense.... you go and sit facing the wall 30 minutes .

Gassho

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[Oheso]

And sometimes we all need a little push, a harsh word, to be corrected. This, of course, should be done with respect too.

thank you for your reply Myozan Kodo. I realize I'm veering off-topic here, so will conclude with this post.

can more be said about the use of the harsh word in our tradition? doubtless due to my personal psychological bent, this often seems to become an issue for me, at times in fact, a real show-stopper. I recognize this as pointing directly at something I must realize doesn't exist, but don't see it getting bullied away anytime soon.

deep bows back at ya,

gassho,

Robt

[Jundo]

thank you for your reply Myozan Kodo. I realize I'm veering off-topic here, so will conclude with this post.

can more be said about the use of the harsh word in our tradition? doubtless due to my personal psychological bent, this often seems to become an issue for me, at times in fact, a real show-stopper. I recognize this as pointing directly at something I must realize doesn't exist, but don't see it getting bullied away anytime soon.

deep bows back at ya,

gassho,

Robt

Hi Rob,

This has come up from time to time ...

Ummon suddenly raised his voice and said, "I spare you thirty
blows. You may now retire." Tokusan used to swing
his big stick whenever he came out to preach in the
hall, saying, "If you utter a word I will give you thirty
blows; if you utter not a word, just the same, thirty
blows on your head." This was all he would say.

I wrote this awhile back ...

[The mildly violent] flavor is mostly associated with the "hard" style of some Rinzai lineages, but also some people in the Soto school. The Harada-Yasutani Lineage, for example, is known for traditionally being "tough".

Others in Zen Buddhism ... seek the way of non-violence, gentleness, peace. The ego is tamed and transcended, not by a frontal assault, but by removing the fuel which fires it. This is perhaps the majority view now. I am of that school (Nishijima even refuses to use the Kyosaku stick, and I do too). As I sometimes say ...

A trickle of water and easy wind can pierce a stone wall or a mountain, as can dynamite. But the latter often ends up making a broken mess of things, and pieces hard to put back together.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ll=1#post25261

I also recently wrote this ...

But different patients require finely prescribed medicines, expedient means. One Zafu does not fit all. Some require a firm hand, some a gentle encouragement. One may need to tightly rope and strike a wild bull, yet offer sugar to catch a bird.

Taigu often has a tongue like a Kyosaku stick! He is not afraid to verbally slap all of us when we need to be set right. We don't physically slap around here, largely because our "beyond distance" format makes that impossible, but also because we believe that physical violence can be like playing with dynamite and easily abused. Even verbal chastising crossing into abuse and manipulation is a risk, so a firm tongue lashing should be carefully done.

I prefer mostly positive encouragement and calm explanation, although I can be quite firm myself (just ask my son what happens when he doesn't feed the cat after reminding!) In fact, me, Taigu and most Teachers I know switch off according to the situation ... the same fellow sometimes offering a slap on the backside, sometimes a gentle hand on the shoulder, sometimes an embrace.
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post113375

Dogen cautioned this, while recognizing that there are times for "tough love" and a grandmother's scolding tongue ...

In an evening talk Dogen said,

Do not use foul language to scold or slander monks. Even if they are bad or dishonest, do not harbor hatred against them nor abuse them thoughtlessly. First of all, no matter how bad they may be, when more than four monks gather together [the traditional number considered a Buddhist community], they form a sangha, which is a priceless treasure of the country. This should be most highly respected and honored. If you are an abbot or a senior priest or even a master or a teacher, if your disciples are wrong, you have to instruct and guide them with a compassionate and parental [grandmotherly] heart. In doing so, however, when you slap those who should be slapped or scold those who should be scolded, do not allow yourself to vilify them or arouse feelings of hatred.

When my late master Nyojo [Dogen's Teacher in China] was the abbot of Tendo Monastery, while the monks were sitting zazen in the sodo (monks hall), he slapped them with his slipper or scolded them with harsh words in order to keep them awake. Yet each of them was thankful to be hit and highly respected him.

Once in a formal speech he said, “I have gotten old. I should have retired from the monastery and moved into a hermitage to care for myself in my old age. Nevertheless, I am the abbot and your teacher, whose duty is to break the delusions of each one of you and to transmit the Way; therefore, I sometimes use harsh language to scold you, or beat you with the bamboo stick. I regret having to do this. However, this is the way to enable the dharma to flourish in place of the Buddha. Brothers, please have compassion on me and forgive me for my deeds.”

Upon hearing these words, all of us shed tears. Only with such a spirit can you teach and propagate the dharma. Even though you may be an abbot or senior priest, it is wrong to govern the community and abuse the monks as if they were your personal belongings. Further, if you are not in such a position, you should not point out others’ faults or speak ill of them. You must be very, very careful.

When you see someone’s faults and think they are wrong and wish to instruct them with compassion, you must find a skillful means to avoid arousing their anger, and do so as if you were talking about something else.

Gassho, J

[Ricky Ramos]

Thanks, Koshin, you crack me up !!! Gassho

[Oheso]

thank you, Sensei, for your answer.

gassho,

Robt

[Taigu]

Spiritual friend is very appropriate. Dropping "my".

gassho


T.

[Daitetsu]

Sensei, Roshi, (spiritual) friend, I don't know...
IMHO the highest form of respect one can show is to put the teachings of ones teachers into practice, to fully live by them (or at least to try it as good as possible).
Titles are categories, words, hulls.

When I give Jundo or Taigu a title, don't I reduce them to a certain role? They are more than teachers, they are fathers, sons, men, etc.
So why not stick with just Jundo and Taigu? It's short, it's simple, it's not formal, it's open.
To each their own, of course, that's just my view.

Gassho,

Timo