Book Recommendation: Lotus in the Fire

[Ryumon]

Late to the party, but a few thoughts...

Serious illness is serious business. I've got a condition that is fairly serious; it could be fatal from one day to the next. When it was discovered - back in 2005 - I was in a very bad place, but the last thing I did was try and find a "cause" for it. (It's a congenital thing, which may or may not be a unique mutation, ie, not inherited.) I find no use in trying to pin the blame on karma or anything else; that just deflects from living with it in the now.

I totally see how karma works in this life; as Neika said, what you sow is what you reap. "If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind," the Grateful Dead say in Franklin's Tower. But saying that karma comes from past lives has two problems. One, we can never know whether it's true or not. Two, there's no point in worry about it if you're attentive to what you do in this life.

[Neika]

Thank you for the book recommendation. Added it to my list. A great thread and subject for discussion.

While karma has always fascinated me, I tend to approach karma as simply as possible - what i sow is what I reap. When I screw up, I expect there will be consequences. Pretty simple. But I have always had this mental image of karma. If you drop a pebble in a pond it creates ripples. Some ripples die off quickly, some reach the shore and stop, some bounce back and hit you, others interact with other things in the pond and bounce off in crazy directions. This has always been my image of karma and how it works. (Probably based on something I read, just not sure what.) But harder throws, or heavier rocks create larger ripples, and the water reacts with everything. The idea that karma is somehow linear and comes straight back at you, just doesn't seem to work for me.

[Oheso]

http://www.radiolab.org/story/251885-you-are-what-your-grandpa-eats/

[Myosha]

Hello,

The facts of karma is mindful of a friend noticing his companion stroking a rabbit's foot for luck. "I thought you didn't believe in 'good luck'?, he asked. "Well", his friend says, "they say it works whether you believe in it or not."^^


Gassho
Edward

Hello everyone,

Great thread ... for me, whether I have a karmic thread from previous lives or where I am going to be in the future based on my karmic trace is not important - if I do not live in this moment right here, right now, I will have no impact on the previous karma or future/next life I may live. If the struggles I have today are based on the negative karma I have created in a previous life, then I refer to the "right here, right now", live this life, not my previous life or my next life. Life is precious and one should not waste it ... be kind, generous, and supportive now ... this is my view in changing previous karma and creating positive karma "now" and for lives to come.

Gassho
Shingen

[Kyonin]

Yes, we are responsible for our actions and their outcomes, but we should never forget that sometimes shit happens...

Yes, this is what I think.

I don't know about the cosmic meaning of karma. Maybe I need to sit and study more.

But what I do know is that everything we do has consequences. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. But at any rate we are mostly responsible of our actions.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Daitetsu]

If there is something like Karma it does not necessarily mean that everything that happens to me has a karmic reason.
There is karma, and there is chance.
You can get hit by a car due to karma (if you haven't kept your eyes open) or due to bad luck (a drunk driver who loses control over his car and hits you).
Yes, we are responsible for our actions and their outcomes, but we should never forget that sometimes shit happens...

Gassho,

Timo

[Rich]

Hans,


Like Willow, I have experienced alternative health practitioners speculating on my behalf about what might have caused my illness on a karmic level. This is very often unhelpful and loads guilt onto an already ill and stressed person. Mostly it seems like a way of neatly tying up loose ends in a complex universe and proclaiming to understand what is going on rather than sitting in the middle of unknowing.

Gassho
Andy

"sitting in the middle of unknowing." Sounds like a good plan to me.

[sittingzen]

I agree with Jundo, whatever helps one get through a long night.

The beliefs of Karma are intertwined with numerous dynamics that Jundo and Hans have mentioned above.

BTW, thanks Jundo for the book recommendation. I have ordered my copy.

Gassho,

Lu

[Seimyo]

I've added to my list Jundo. Thank you for the review.

Gassho
Seimyo

[Jinyo]

Just seen lots more replies - will read through now.



Willow

[Hans]

Hello Andy,

I hear you. To me this reflex is also closely related sometimes with the "positive thinking Gestapo", people in general and some alternative health practitioners who want to tell you that it is your always negative thoughts which gave you some illness...often just adding insult to injury. One of the main reasons for such views is the massive undigested legacy of early Theosophy and Anthroposophy, which have shaped so much of modern culture in general and new-age culture in particular.

And now I feel another book recommendation coming up : http://www.amazon.com/Turn-Off-Your-.../dp/0971394237


@Willow: Don't think too much about it, that is why the Buddha warned against trying to figure this out, our shaven ape hardware won't cut it. Better to sit Zazen instead!

Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[Jinyo]

Thank you Jundo - I understand what you say.

A close friend who died of cancer had amazing visions the last few weeks of her life. She was not at all religious but seemed to have pierced a veil between what we normally think of as reality and something sacred. Admittedly she was on high levels of morphine but it felt comforting that the mind has the ability to connect in such a way with whatever gives comfort and strength.

I think I was more along the lines of I would not want anyone to unnecessarily suffer because they thought some past 'unknown' karmic deed/deeds had contributed to present misfortune.

And thank you Hans. I need to study this more - the notion of multiple loops makes sense.

I think this is probably a big topic. If we're all interconnected then presumably so is the karmic load - even down to whether a person smokes. The genetic link for smoking and addictive behaviour is strong. Is someone else's past life also in some way my past life?

So many ways to think on this

Gassho

Willow

[Jundo]

Let me just add that I am a "The Greatest Magic and Miracle is Right Here in the So-Called 'Ordinary' Right Before Your Eyes .. So OPEN THEM!" kind of fellow.

[Kokuu]

Hans,

I agree. Thinking about one's own karma and how your actions have brought you to the place you are now and where your present actions might take you have merit. Doing the same on behalf of another person, not so much. In Tibetan circles I heard it said that the victims of various natural disaster were experiencing the ripening of their collective karma. True? I have no idea but suspect not. Helpful? Not really.

Like Willow, I have experienced alternative health practitioners speculating on my behalf about what might have caused my illness on a karmic level. This is very often unhelpful and loads guilt onto an already ill and stressed person. Mostly it seems like a way of neatly tying up loose ends in a complex universe and proclaiming to understand what is going on rather than sitting in the middle of unknowing.

Gassho
Andy