shobogenzo

[Jun]

Shasta Abbey, to me at least, appears to be coloured by Christianity. Some of the terminology used, as well as the overall tone is rather preachy in a Christian way.

I do agree with Harry in that it appears that the essential heart of Dogens words is missing from Rev. Nearman's translation/interpretation.

[Jundo]

Shasta Abbey, to me at least, appears to be coloured by Christianity.

Well, that just means that it is a different perspective or flavor of Zen Practice, perhaps. Each his own. Each with its own values and demerits. Sure, there is likely something to criticize there. There is certainly much to criticize everywhere, including Treeleaf Zendo.

(I hope you don't expect me to say that my lineage, or ME for that matter, are "the best of all" and everyone else in the universe has it wrong. I certainly will not! I think my way of teaching is True and Valid for me and those folks with whom it rings. Other folks may hear the universe's music from other seats in the big theatre of life).

Lynn was there for several years, and can speak to this much better than I can, but I do understand that Kennett Roshi did model the structure of the "Abbey", and many of the rituals, costumes and styles, on something generally resembling the Anglican practices. I know that their beautiful chants are very close to "Evensong" or Gregorian Chants. And it may have a mystical flavor, given the tendency of Kennett Roshi to see visions and hear voices, which were incorporated into their practices.

Now, that being said, I did caution students about the Shasta Abbey Shobogenzo, as it may have that flavor and that perspective, which is not the flavor or perspective that I encourage here. I don't give much clearance to mystical visions and voices. But, that just means that they may play their music a little differently from the way I would play it.

Does that may sense?

Gassho, Jundo

[Jun]

Please understand that my comment is meant to be neither negative nor positive, just simply an observation.

The Chinese in their adoption of Buddhism mingled in Taoism and Confucian thought along with other folk religions, the Japanese Shinto, and the Tibetans Bon. It is probably to be expected that those from other religious backgrounds will draw from their backgrounds when interpreting Buddhist teachings.

gassho

[Rev R]

hmmm coyote Zen...works for me.

[Longdog]

I can see what you say about the Anglicanism and Rev Master Kennet did train in music at Durham in the UK (seat of christianity here) but being a bit of an anti christ :lol: I would run a mile if it were so blatant.

I managed to get to my local soto zen group (of Rev Master Jiyu's line) the other night to sit and I have to say to chant the scripture of great wisdom in plain chant before sitting was rather loveley. saying that to sit with others for a change was great in itself and to sit is the priority in the group too.

The ceremonies at the Abbey itself can have a bit of flourish but not excesively and sitin is still just sitting.

If anyone han't heard the way it is done I could mail you an mp3 of some of the chants from Throssel Hole Abbey in the UK to your normal email addy if you pm me. Don't seem to be able to post mp3 here.

As you rightly stated before, Jundo, you, your practise and teaching are what they are, I guess I just felt the need to speak up for my Soto Zen local mob

In gassho, Kev

[Jun]

Morning service here - http://shastaabbey.org/audio/services/mservice.mp3

Morning office here - http://shastaabbey.org/audio/services/moffice.mp3

I must say, for me at least, it is rather off putting.

[Jun]

hmmm coyote Zen...works for me.

Can we expect trouble if an adherent of 'Roadrunner Zen' comes on the scene :?:

Regards,

H.

:lol:

[Longdog]

Thanks for finding them Jun

They're not something for musical entertainment, but when you are part of it it certainly helps with that sanga feeling.

I think the improtant thing to remember is that they are short part of what happens. At our group, for instance, the 'opening ceremony' at he beginning is about 10 minutes and sometimes is not alot more than reading 'rules for meditation'. This is usually followed by 25 min zazen, 5 min kinshin, 25min zazen. This is not at the Abbey but our local group.

In my opinion, it does help form and hold a group and also means a chance to say or chant one of the scriptures and perhaps gain an insight, something I guess most of us don't do regularly?

So best of lots of worlds, ones own zazen, a sangas zazen, ones own reading/chanting, a groups reading/chanting, zazen plus 'reading's, zazen with music, . A bit of a 'multi-vitamin and mineral' zazen taken once a week :lol:

Oh forgot to mention the important closing...tea and biscuits afterwards, love it when some one brings jaffa cakes

[Rev R]

hmmm coyote Zen...works for me.

Can we expect trouble if an adherent of 'Roadrunner Zen' comes on the scene :?:

Regards,

H.

[Longdog]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Rev R]

I hope that is an ACME(tm) personal torture device.

[Eika]

Jun wrote:
I must say, for me at least, it is rather off putting.

Just curious, why do you find it off putting?

Respectfully,
Bill

[Jun]

Jun wrote:
I must say, for me at least, it is rather off putting.

Just curious, why do you find it off putting?

Respectfully,
Bill

I'll keep that one to myself.

gassho

[Eika]

Hi Jun,
That's OK, didn't mean to pry.

Bill