Lie and reading emotions

[Myoshin]

Hi all,

A post about lie, one of precepts, and reading emotions (a way to understand, and knowing them, better communication with people possibly)
This method is from Paul Ekman, 40 years of research, teaching at the FBI, CIA, MI 5, etc.
What if indeed we can catch a liar? What connexion do you see between that and Buddhism?
He is also "working" with the Dalai Lama, sharing there knowledge about emotions.

Gassho

Myoshin

[Jundo]

I have heard these methods are very hit and miss, and a well trained liar can easily learn how to appear sincere and fool the experts. Many cool and calculating habitual liars can too. The claims for such systems may be overstated.

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100526/full/465412a.html

Gassho, J

[Mp]

This is an interesting topic - funny, we are studying this is Psychology.

Gassho
Shingen

[Rich]

I recently read about a guy who provided a service to teach people how to lie and pass a lie detector. Apparently he was very successful but was arrested because his clients were applying for government jobs with security clearances.

[Myoshin]

As we can see lie detector gives only biological information, not why (someone can be detected as a liar because of heart beating, but it can just be fear)or to be calm someone can take a tranquilizing, and pass through the detector.
A trained human can do 90 percent, not more he remains a human. Not trained 54 percent.
Nobody can check all the part of his body, face, voice, words all the time. Clues to catch a liar are very numerous. And some facial muscles are reliable because only 1/10 can do the correct expression with eyebrows.
Exception for psychopath, victims of illusion, born liar, and some other rare cases, it's difficult to pass through.
I studied Ekman's method, not officially because of the cost, but talked some hours with the director of France, Belgium, Netherlands (Benelux) That's one of the reasons I posted this.

I don't know if it's against the Practice or if it can help in a way

Sorry if the subjetc is boring.

Thank you for your patience.

Gassho

Myoshin

[Risho]

ok, side topic. lol

It's complete fiction, but there was a show called "Lie to me" which was based on this premise. It was very,very good.

[Jundo]

Thanks for posting it Myoshin. I say that honestly. I am also afraid of people being wrongly accused or suspected based on such evidence. I believe that there has been work with MRI machines, seeing if any part of the brain "lights up" in a lie, and even that has mixed results.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/03/noliemri/

Let's continue this discussion when we come to the Precept on telling the truth as right speech in a few weeks. Would we really want a world where people did not tell "white lies"? Even the Buddha, in some of the Sutras, recommended fibbing sometimes as "expedient means" to those who need to hear so.

Gassho, J

[lordbd]

For what it's worth, my father was a Fed, and they chose NOT to adopt this Eckman stuff because the evidence didn't stack up for them. In Eckman's defense, his research is really about reading the face for evidence of subtle emotions, which there is stronger evidence for, and not for "lie detecting."

[toshiro_mifune]

My hands are usually very warm and moist. I always have to do my fingerprints at least three times before they are good. My eyes are very sensitive to light to the point I have to wear sunglasses all year (which kills my zazen too), most people think I am angry when in fact I am not. In the culture I grew up, looking straight in the eyes is considered thuggish, and you don't smile too much or you seem suspicious. On top of that, I hate dealing with all kinds of government people, police officers etc, so I am always stressed out in these situations.

The point is, with this guy's method I would easily get 40 years without parole, even if I was 500 miles away from the scene of the crime, especially now, in the era of "Buddhist killers"

Gassho,
Mike

[Myoshin]

Hands warm an moist for someone must be check as a initial Baseline (as the video shows) of the person. Eyes not visible are just on point less we can work with, others parts can be checked.
If people think you angry it's because the research has shown that most of people cannot identify a true and natural expression of an emotion.
About culture, Ekman says we have to know the manners of the country, this too has to be considered in the base line, idem for the smile.
Stress is a sign of fear, when the hotspot of fear comes, we have to probe that the fear is not about the subjet (it can be because of other reasons), for that we skipp the subject and come back after watching if the reactions are the same.

Gassho

Myoshin

[Myoshin]

"But given a bit of training, Ekman says, almost anyone can develop the skill. He should know: since the mid-80s and the first publication of his best-known book, Telling Lies, he has been called in by the FBI, CIA, the US Transportation Security Administration, immigration authorities, anti-terrorist investigators and police forces around the world not just to help crack cases, but to teach them how to use the technique themselves."

From http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...ons-paul-ekman

It seems the US government called him

Gassho

Myoshin

[toshiro_mifune]

Yeah, they are a great research material for a guy like Ekman.

Gassho,
Mike

[Myoshin]

If anyone is interested by the book "telling lies' I have the first edition (1992) on pdf in English, I can send it by mail, they will appreciate by themselves the veracity of his studies or not.

Gassho

Myoshin