Washington Post Article on "Buddhist Assassin"

[Kokuu]

I agree that the journalistic content of the article is terrible (assassin is a word with a precise meaning that just doesn't fit here) and it is all too tempting and easy to look for reasons that make killers other rather than just like us but for circumstance and when they are like us (the same nationality, religion, ethnicity) it can hit hard.

When I lived in a dharma centre the resident teacher actually made us all aware that people with mental health issues often seek out Buddhist centres as a means of support and help. She made it clear that it could be very tempting to believe that we could heal such people but aside from offering friendship, anything else was to be left to mental health professionals. Some folk were even advised to avoid meditation until they had sought professional help. Mindfulness and other meditation may be good for mild to moderate anxiety, depression and other issues but suggesting that a severely depressed or psychotic person sit with their mind is bad medicine.

I imagine that most teachers are aware of the need to refer mentally unwell people to outside help but wonder if some sanghas do bite off more than they can chew? Not suggesting that this was the case here but the incidence of mental illness in Buddhist sanghas is not something I have ever seen written about. As well as the danger of thinking that dharma alone can effect a cure, mental health problems can cause feelings of isolation in a group setting too. Several people here have written about how they can feel cut off from discussions at times and that would doubtless be greatly heightened in cases of already existing anxiety or paranoia.

Anyway, this was just something that this article brought up in me and I would like to see a greater awareness of as people who are suffering will often gravitate towards meditation and Buddhism and few of us are qualified to deal with that. If someone had spotted that this guy needed help, maybe he could have been pointed in the right direction. Or maybe he already was and the PTSD was just too great.

Great sadness for him and all the victims.

Gassho
Andy

[RichardH]

It is interesting to read this article, then see identifying as a Buddhist, and sensitivities about how "we" are portrayed.

Gassho Daizan

[Myosha]

Koun epitomizes ". . .not two, one. . .".

Thank you.


Gassho,
Edward

[Shujin]

Adding insult to injury in many of these cases, people seem to be tripping over themselves in a race to explain what happened. I read this article a couple of days ago in the Atlantic, thought it might be relevant: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...es-how/266439/

Gassho,
Shujin

[Daisho]

I read the Franz Koun article and was going to post it before I saw that David already had. What he talks about is difficult for me to accept. Imagining/feeling the suffering is different that understanding that I can do the same thing. Maybe I can shine a beam into my dark side to see how I can go postal at work but what about the shooting of the children at Newcomb?

Koun: "When the children were shot in Newtown, I didn’t want to ask what mattered—instead, I turned to Tracy and asked her, “How could someone do such a thing?” I felt crushed by it, like it had stripped me raw. I assumed at first that it was because I have kids, so now I hear that kind of story differently. And that’s not untrue. But the real pain of it, the wound I didn’t want to see, was the question I had managed to stifle in those first moments. I wanted to say there’s a limit and I’ve found it, that here, finally, I can say, “I am not that.” But that’s not the truth. I know. Whether through practice or the constant asking or just advancing age, I know better."

I'm not able believe I could do that. Is what Koun's saying a tenant of Buddhism or is it just his interpretation or opinion?

[Jundo]

I read the Franz Koun article and was going to post it before I saw that David already had. What he talks about is difficult for me to accept. Imagining/feeling the suffering is different that understanding that I can do the same thing. Maybe I can shine a beam into my dark side to see how I can go postal at work but what about the shooting of the children at Newcomb?

Koun: "When the children were shot in Newtown, I didn’t want to ask what mattered—instead, I turned to Tracy and asked her, “How could someone do such a thing?” I felt crushed by it, like it had stripped me raw. I assumed at first that it was because I have kids, so now I hear that kind of story differently. And that’s not untrue. But the real pain of it, the wound I didn’t want to see, was the question I had managed to stifle in those first moments. I wanted to say there’s a limit and I’ve found it, that here, finally, I can say, “I am not that.” But that’s not the truth. I know. Whether through practice or the constant asking or just advancing age, I know better."

I'm not able believe I could do that. Is what Koun's saying a tenant of Buddhism or is it just his interpretation or opinion?

Hi Jack,

Hmmm, don't want to wax too philosophical. But it is a general tenet of Buddhism that any of us has within us (until we are Perfect Buddhas) the seeds and soil for greed, anger, ignorance, jealousy, violence and such. Given the wrong upbringing, the wrong situation we are thrown in, the wrong mental illness striking, we are all capable of many things we might not want to admit. We must be on our guard.

I need only think of "ordinary people" in Nazi Germany, Rwanda and the like who, in the heat of the situation, did unspeakable things.

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Willing-Executioners-Ordinary-Holocaust/dp/0679772685

This is one reason that in Buddhism, we do not generally speak of "bad people" ... just people who do "bad acts". We feel the real culprit is the greed, anger and ignorance in all of us. That does not mean, by the way, that we do not do what is necessary to stop or prevent such behavior (sending in the police, even shooting the person if needed to save many other lives). It is just that we feel he too was a victim of greed, anger and ignorance.

The vision of Samsara is that we all have potential to go up or down at any turn, one minute acting like good and gentle folks, the next day like saints, but the next day like animals or hellish fiends if we are not careful.

Yes, there could go you or me if our life was that person's life.

Gassho, J

[Amelia]

Metta for all.

[Jundo]

Hi Jack,

Hmmm, don't want to wax too philosophical. But it is a general tenet of Buddhism that any of us has within us (until we are Perfect Buddhas) the seeds and soil for greed, anger, ignorance, jealousy, violence and such. Given the wrong upbringing, the wrong situation we are thrown in, the wrong mental illness striking, we are all capable of many things we might not want to admit. We must be on our guard.

I need only think of "ordinary people" in Nazi Germany, Rwanda and the like who, in the heat of the situation, did unspeakable things.

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Willing-Executioners-Ordinary-Holocaust/dp/0679772685

This is one reason that in Buddhism, we do not generally speak of "bad people" ... just people who do "bad acts". We feel the real culprit is the greed, anger and ignorance in all of us. That does not mean we do not do what is necessary to stop or prevent such behavior (sending in the police, even shooting the person if needed to save many other lives). It is just that we feel he too was a victim of greed, anger and ignorance.

The vision of Samsara is that we all have potential to go up or down at any turn, one minute acting like good and gentle folks, the next day like saints, but the next day like animals or hellish fiends if we are not careful.

Yes, there could go you or me if our life was that person's life.

Gassho, J

Let me add that what is often harder to pierce ... more than that we may all have the potential for harm within us ... is that you, me, the people harmed, Nazis, the shooter are all Buddha in a very real way, even if hidden far under the dirt of greed, anger and ignorance.

Metta to All.

Gassho, J

[Daisho]

Thanks Jundo...I guess it's easier for me to say I can feel what he's feeling rather than do what he's doing. Got to mull this one over.

[Myosha]

Thank you.


Gassho,
Edward

[toshiro_mifune]

"his attendance there dropped off after about a year. He drank alcohol regularly and carried a gun"

Yet, huge part of the article deals with his Buddhism. Who knows what was going on in his head? News have to sell...

Gassho,
Mike

[RichardH]

When I first experienced a dissolving of absolutes, I was not grounded, and panicked at not having a foothold. There was fear that i could do anything, and my own impulses were like a monster in the closet. If I stood by a ledge maybe I'd jump off? If I held a knife maybe I'd stick it in someone? It was a frightening time that had to be worked through, and was helped by the presence of a wise friend. There is no violence or perversity "out there" that isn't "in here", somehow this heart is big enough to contain it all .

Gassho Dazian

[Jundo]

When I first experienced a dissolving of absolutes, I was not grounded, and panicked at not having a foothold. There was fear that i could do anything, and my own impulses were like a monster in the closet. If I stood by a ledge maybe I'd jump off? If I held a knife maybe I'd stick it in someone? It was a frightening time that had to be worked through, and was helped by the presence of a wise friend. There is no violence or perversity "out there" that isn't "in here", somehow this heart is big enough to contain it all .

Gassho Dazian

There are times in this Practice that one feels so absolutely free, and there is so much emphasis in our Way on "transcending human judgments such as life and death, good and bad", that the Buddha cautioned against our falling into nihilism. The Precepts, emphasizing peace and non-violence, are meant to keep us on a good and beneficial road.

The goal (yes, we have goals even though goalless!) is not to be "amoral", but rather to find a certain Peace, Compassion and Goodness even greater than small human judgments of good and bad, violence and peace.

I think it true in any religion or philosophy that one can find either a message of peace or an excuse for violence and bloodshed (such as the Christian Crusaders or 9-11 Hijackers). The same could be true in Buddhism if one does not live the non-violent, non-abusive, caring and charitable way that the Precepts guide us. For the most part (there have been exceptions through the centuries) most Buddhists seem to stay on the good road.

Gassho, J

[Dosho]

Jack,

It isn't necessarily about a dark side, but about putting ourselves in the shoes of someone who is mentally ill. We can feel empathy for someone who has the flu because we have felt this ourselves. It is a bit more difficult with schizophrenia or other severe mental disorders that we have not experienced.

So, yes, I find it difficult to believe who I conceive of as "me" could do such a terrible thing. But if I had suffered as this man had obviously suffered, I would be rather arrogant to think that could not have been me.

Gassho,
Dosho

I read the Franz Koun article and was going to post it before I saw that David already had. What he talks about is difficult for me to accept. Imagining/feeling the suffering is different that understanding that I can do the same thing. Maybe I can shine a beam into my dark side to see how I can go postal at work but what about the shooting of the children at Newcomb?

I'm not able believe I could do that. Is what Koun's saying a tenant of Buddhism or is it just his interpretation or opinion?

[Heion]

Some murders are Buddhist but not all Buddhist are murderers. My simple take on it. As said before, people want an easy answer to process without any ambiguity. This man obviously had many psychological issues and should've tried to better himself... but seem people are in too deep of a hole to know this.

Gassho,
Alex