Some confusion about thoughts and free will

[sittingzen]

Yes.

And then we can rise from our seat, join the dancing, and realize that sitting and waltzing ... stillness and motion, silence and music ... were never two. Unmoving, as one's heart is moved in joy or sadness. Tripping or graceful, there is no place to fall ... yet we seek to stay upright as best we can (not always succeeding).

Swinging with our partner and all the room, trying not to have two left feet or to step on others ... yet partner, floor and all the room just who we are, beyond right or left, near or far, all directions. Who is dancing whom?

In fact, sitting and standing or flying through the air, free will or will free, there is just reality's beautiful Music (Big "M") holding all perceived harmonies and disharmonies of life ... each unmoving-step flowing (Big "D") Dancing-Dance-Dancing.

Twirling is always the still-silent pivot point brought to life.

Cha-Cha-Cha, Twist, Twerk and Tango.**

Gasssho, J

** I'm no better poet than I am a ballroom dancer, but I hope the point is clear.

Jundo,

You actually gave me that example 3 years ago. It was quite some time before I was able to actually internalize and experience what you were referring to

And as you say with the sitting/dancing references; it is never two, but always one. And in that one is all the glory (and sometimes sadness)!

Perhaps we'll see a waltzing Jundo at Jukai?

[Neo]

Thanks for your answers everyone, I think I'm not that focused on the free will question anymore right now. Thanks Jundo also for the cultivating seeds link. By the way, from what book did you pick that up by Thich Nhat Hanh? I got a sudden "free will?!" interest of reading that one. ;-)

[Jundo]

By the way, from what book did you pick that up by Thich Nhat Hanh? I got a sudden "free will?!" interest of reading that one. ;-)

Hi,

My impression (perhaps someone can correct me) is that it is scattered through his writings, not just one particular book.

It is actually an ancient Buddhist notion for thousands of years, based on the view that our words, thoughts and acts based on greed, anger and ignorance (or generosity, peace and Wisdom) plant Karmic seeds stored within our minds that, in turn, give birth to more of the same on and on ... and that we need to plant good seeds and avoid harming seeds.

Gassho, J

[Myosha]

Thank you.


Gassho,
Edward

[glow]

Thank you.

Gassho,

Glow

[kidbuda]

Hello guys!

So I'm kinda stuck with these meta-thoughts (thoughts about thoughts). According to buddhism in general, thoughts arise spontaniously, right? It's like, im born in Sweden, and I can change that just as much as I can change the thoughts that arise in my mind?

But even so, budda stated:

"We are what we think, all that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world"

Does this mean that I shall say to my mind, no, no, when certain thoughts arises, and try to welcome other thoughts? Maybe my problem lies at the free will question, did buddha say that we had the free will do pick our thoughts and actions or was he deterministic about this? Middle way? But how?

It's like this big contradiction in my mind right now, and maybe I'm just stuck in a non logic or stone-agish thinking pattern. But it feels like such a big contradiction.

It's like when i listen to Sam Harris talk about free will (or read his book). It feels like the same as buddha. First they say that thoughts arises at random and that you shall just let it go. Then they tell you that you are responsible for your actions (and that is indirect your thought). How can we be morally responsible for something like this? When they first stated that we cant help your thoughts.

I'm sure this was a long and boring post but, I really need to get some new ideas/angels to look view this now, I'm stuck.

Thank you..

Hello Neo! Here is my contribution hope you find it useful:

1. Do and put the test what Judo says.
2. You can try also this: See your mind as a movie theater with a screen. Your mind will produce thoughts all the time, even during Zazen, and those toughts arise and the come to the screen of the theater, your attention (inner and outer) is the screen, you can hold one thought on the screen and let it roll its full movie or just let it go and let the next thought come to the screen.

Eventually, with eough practice and shikantaza you will be able to see that thoughts have a tiny tiny space between them, like the frames of a movie, the more aware of that space the easier to manage the thoughts that make it to the screen.

Sorry for my broken english .

Gassho

kb

[Rich]

Eventually, with eough practice and shikantaza you will be able to see that thoughts have a tiny tiny space between them, like the frames of a movie, the more aware of that space the easier to manage the thoughts that make it to the screen.

Sorry for my broken english .

Gassho

kb

So zen buddhists are pretty spaced out

[kidbuda]

So zen buddhists are pretty spaced out

Exactly! jajajjaa.

[Neo]

Hello Neo! Here is my contribution hope you find it useful:

1. Do and put the test what Judo says.
2. You can try also this: See your mind as a movie theater with a screen. Your mind will produce thoughts all the time, even during Zazen, and those toughts arise and the come to the screen of the theater, your attention (inner and outer) is the screen, you can hold one thought on the screen and let it roll its full movie or just let it go and let the next thought come to the screen.

Eventually, with eough practice and shikantaza you will be able to see that thoughts have a tiny tiny space between them, like the frames of a movie, the more aware of that space the easier to manage the thoughts that make it to the screen.

Sorry for my broken english .

Gassho

kb

thanks, though I cant really understand what this has to do with my "free will" issue :-) But I'm more clear now that buddha said that the middle path is the way to go with the free will, and I've decided to not give that question a whole lot of energy from now on.