Military Action in Syria ...

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  • Genshin
    Member
    • Jan 2013
    • 467

    #16
    The images coming back from Syria are horrifying and deeply saddening. Respectfully, I think it is important to take action to prevent the proliferation and use of such weapons, and if progress through diplomacy and dialogue fails, then unfortunately I do feel military action is justified as an absolute last resort in order to preserve life and prevent this horror from happening again. That said, the consequence of the west taking action is likely to create further regional instability down the road.

    Taigu, I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.

    Gassho
    Matt

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    • Emmet
      Member
      • Nov 2011
      • 296

      #17
      I refuse to believe that the only way to end suffering is by perpetuating it.

      As ghastly as the Assad regime is, I don't see how Wahhabi jihadists allied with Al Qaeda would be an improvement. I also think that the notion that the world powers have sat idly by, impotently wringing their hands for two years is mistaken; someone, somewhere, has profited handsomely by continually selling the means of mass industrialized death to all sides in this conflict. Now the largest weapons dealer in the world with an extensive history of rampant militarism, deceit, and confabulating casus belli wants us to believe that as great humanitarians they can be trusted to judiciously add to the carnage for the good of all.
      I've heard that a hunter (Dick Cheney notwithstanding) will not take the shot unless they can clearly see their target...and trust their backstop. I see no such clarity here.

      May all beings without exception be safe, free of the suffering of fear, anger, and hatred, and be at peace.
      Emmet

      Comment

      • Kyonin
        Dharma Transmitted Priest
        • Oct 2010
        • 6748

        #18
        In war the first victim is always the truth.

        So many things we haven't heard on the media, so many people suffering, so many stories and so many reasons.

        Yet, we can only see from afar and hope for the wisdom and clarity of mind for world leaders.

        May things turn to peace soon and all suffering end.

        Gassho,

        Kyonin
        Hondō Kyōnin
        奔道 協忍

        Comment

        • RichardH
          Member
          • Nov 2011
          • 2800

          #19
          The U.S. will be damned if it takes action, and damned if it doesn't. Obama is not Bush, who choked on a pretzel while watching football and knew God's will. He is no fool and in a tough spot. He can see shades of grey. No one will win the Syrian civil war. Syria won't become a human rights haven. It will be a different flavor of awful. Obama only wants to thwart further use of mass gassing as a weapon. He is not just taking a moral pose. I have no idea what will happen, and can do nothing about it. Only hoping and wishing for the best.

          Gassho Daizan.

          Comment

          • Jinyo
            Member
            • Jan 2012
            • 1957

            #20
            Sadly all of our thoughts and feelings and opinions are like dust in the wind.

            I have a small globe of the world on my dressing table and when I send metta I simply focus on this small object, because it represents the suffering of million upon millions of human beings.

            It makes me realise that as an individual my opinions are of little consequence and that I can only realise a compassionate vision of the world at a local level - within my family, friends and local community. If we can not create love within our lives and immediate circumstances then there is no hope for our world.

            This doesn't mean that I feel we shouldn't campaign, protest and do whatever we can - but I don't believe the world can change on a global level without a huge shift in our sensitivities to all that we experience as 'other'.

            Metta to all who are suffering in Syria and so many other parts of the world.

            Gassho

            Willow

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40974

              #21
              Buddhists, despite thousands of years of time, have never found a way to make this world peaceful and perfect.

              They did not find such a way when Muslim invaders conquered India, killing and burning Buddhism right out of existence in that country. They did not find such a way during the Mongol invasions of ancient China, Korea and Japan. The Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh have yet to find the way to prevent war. Buddhists have identified the causes in human greed, anger and ignorance ... and found medicines and a cure for so many people. But we have never found a way to bring peace to the whole wide world (not even for all Buddhists). So much of this Samsaric world continues to burn with greed, anger and ignorance, violence and division.

              No, Buddhists, despite thousands of years of time, have never found a way to make this world peaceful and perfect.

              We have, however, found the key to be 'at Peace' with this world of sometime peace and sometime war, and to find the Wholeness in this perfectly imperfect life.

              ... seeing through the dream-like beauty and ugliness ...

              ... all while doing what we can in this world to bring peace, cure the disease, make the world better.

              This world may be much like a dream, though sometimes a nightmare. But it is our dream, and we live it. So, while seeing through this world to Peace and Wholeness, we nonetheless do what we can to make this world better.

              I look forward to a day ... not only in which there is sufficient food, water, housing, education, medical care, safety and peace and human rights rights for all sentient beings ... but a day when all violence anywhere in the world is made illegal, and nations gather together to enforce non-violence through the whole world much as police work to stop violence and protect the innocent in a single city.

              Maybe it is impossible, but we can keep working for such a world.

              I would like to share with everyone my rather idealistic dream ... maybe even too radical for the taste of many. Here it is:

              I would love to see developed countries such as the United States and EU Nations primarily answer violence ... even something like the destruction of the World Trade Center ... by turning the other cheek, responding by spending the same billions of dollars in the military budget by building schools, hospitals, roads and other "good will" projects in the countries of our enemies, "killing them with kindness" instead of bullets. It would be an all out effort to win the hearts and minds of those who hate.

              Is such a world possible?

              Of course, I do not see this as a total answer ... and some situations will yet need to be met with bombs and armies. That is just the reality. Syria may be such a situation where we cannot "turn the other cheek" but, instead, must step in to protect the innocent, no different from how a group of good samaritans ... when seeing an innocent victim being beaten or raped on a city street ... would not merely stand by, leave it to someone else to handle. They would step in, take action (even by force if and only as necessary) to save the innocent. However, military force should be turned to only as a last last resort.

              Gassho, J
              Last edited by Jundo; 09-03-2013, 03:39 AM.
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Taigu
                Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
                • Aug 2008
                • 2710

                #22
                Well, yes. As long as we don't expect politicians, military guys and bankers to run the show, as long we take it into our own hands, not to change the world but change our world, that is to say the way we behave, work, interact...in other words, changing from top to bottom simply does not work. A revolution can really happen in our daily lives and if we are many to do so...then, change will take place. Don't think that if you drop a piece of paper into a box it is going to change things. Politicians lie just because the truth is that their are powerless, they are under the direct changing move of money and the stock exchange. Nobody will tell you: vote for me but you know, I can't do most of what I say I would do...

                So, Zen is my way to universally work. Commuting and filling forms, talking to people and helping them as much as I can...this is the way to change things.

                Gassho


                Taigu

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40974

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Taigu
                  Well, yes. As long as we don't expect politicians, military guys and bankers to run the show, as long we take it into our own hands, not to change the world but change our world, that is to say the way we behave, work, interact...in other words, changing from top to bottom simply does not work. A revolution can really happen in our daily lives and if we are many to do so...then, change will take place. Don't think that if you drop a piece of paper into a box it is going to change things. Politicians lie just because the truth is that their are powerless, they are under the direct changing move of money and the stock exchange. Nobody will tell you: vote for me but you know, I can't do most of what I say I would do...

                  So, Zen is my way to universally work. Commuting and filling forms, talking to people and helping them as much as I can...this is the way to change things.

                  Gassho


                  Taigu
                  I don't know, Taigu. I still think we can have a world with decent leaders acting decently, working for peace and social welfare instead of simply to get re-elected and to support whatever large interest sends campaign contributions their way. We would first need to take the money out of politics, and perhaps let our leaders be selected-elected as a board of "Wise Elders" more in the way America selects its Supreme Court (not to say that is a perfect system either!). I still think that we can have an economic system that aims for and produces medicine, education, decent housing and benefit for all in place of waste, fat, flash and fast food for some. I think we can learn to "agree to disagree" on social values, religious beliefs and cultural differences ... all while cooperating together, and not killing each other.

                  I am an optimist, although I have to admit that I am not optimistic that such a world will come about soon. Hopefully it will before we do destroy ourselves. That is why I have to remain optimistic.

                  Bhutan is no "Shangri-La", but their king did help introduce the idea of a "G.N.H. Index" (Gross National Happiness) to replace our current G.N.P. measure.

                  The term "gross national happiness" was coined in 1972 by Bhutan's fourth Dragon King, Jigme Singye Wangchuck, who has opened Bhutan to the age of modernization soon after the demise of his father, Jigme Dorji Wangchuk. He used this phrase to signal his commitment to building an economy that would serve Bhutan's unique culture based on Buddhist spiritual values. ...

                  ... the country has rejected GDP as the only way to measure progress. In its place, it has championed a new approach to development, which measures prosperity through formal principles of gross national happiness (GNH) and the spiritual, physical, social and environmental health of its citizens and natural environment.

                  For the past three decades, this belief that wellbeing should take preference over material growth has remained a global oddity. Now, in a world beset by collapsing financial systems, gross inequity and wide-scale environmental destruction, this tiny Buddhist state's approach is attracting a lot of interest..
                  Bhutan measures prosperity by gauging its citizens' happiness levels, not the GDP. Now its ideas are attracting interest at the UN climate change conference in Doha


                  Of course, even Bhutan has struggled for such a dream in the face of realities ...

                  New Bhutanese PM Tshering Tobgay has cast doubt on the country's pursuit of Gross National Happiness (GNH).

                  The concept is overused and masks problems with corruption and low standards of living, Mr Tobgay told AFP news agency.

                  ...

                  Mr Tobgay, 47, said that while he supported the notion that "economic growth is not the be-all and end-all of development", GNH should not distract from tackling Bhutan's pressing problems, including chronic unemployment, poverty and corruption.

                  "If the government of the day were to spend a disproportionate amount of time talking about GNH rather than delivering basic services, then it is a distraction," he said.

                  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23545641
                  Such is Samsara, this Saha world, requiring great endurance.

                  Samsara/Saha is this world which is full of suffering. Often translated as the world of endurance. Saha means the earth; it derives from a root meaning "to bear" or "to endure." For this reason, in the Chinese versions of Buddhist scriptures, saha is rendered as endurance. In this context, the saha world indicates a world in which people must endure suffering. It is also defined as an impure land, a land defiled by earthly desires and illusion, in contrast with a pure land. The saha world describes the land where Shakyamuni Buddha makes his appearance and instructs living beings.
                  No, Buddha never found a way to fully fix this messed up world, though pointing to what we need to do. Fortunately, we have Nirvana which lets us see right through it.

                  Gassho, J
                  Last edited by Jundo; 09-03-2013, 03:11 AM.
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Myosha
                    Member
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 2974

                    #24
                    Thank you.


                    Gassho,
                    Edward
                    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

                    Comment

                    • Jakugan
                      Member
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 303

                      #25
                      I am always in two minds when it comes situations like this in the world. On the one hand there is the promise that violence is the best of a bad situation. On the other the cycle is perpetuated. Then there are the intentions of the players pushing for war, their motivations, the voters that have to be appeased. It is never that simple.
                      Metta to the people of Syria.

                      Gassho,

                      Simon.

                      Comment

                      • Nengyo
                        Member
                        • May 2012
                        • 668

                        #26
                        War sucks. No two ways about. I hope the people of Syria find peace soon...

                        Tiagu, I hope your friends have found a safe, dry, warm place with lots of tea and bread to ride this storm out. Syria will need peacemakers after this.
                        If I'm already enlightened why the hell is this so hard?

                        Comment

                        • Daijo
                          Member
                          • Feb 2012
                          • 530

                          #27
                          In peace, sit.
                          In war, sit.
                          To every stranger, smile.
                          In abundance.
                          Make peace in your body/mind
                          and share it.
                          With everyone you meet.
                          And when you fail.
                          smile again. In Abundance.

                          Comment

                          • Mp

                            #28
                            Originally posted by chuck13
                            In peace, sit.
                            In war, sit.
                            To every stranger, smile.
                            In abundance.
                            Make peace in your body/mind
                            and share it.
                            With everyone you meet.
                            And when you fail.
                            smile again. In Abundance.
                            Beautiful!

                            Gassho
                            Shingen

                            Comment

                            • Heisoku
                              Member
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 1338

                              #29
                              So, Zen is my way to universally work. Commuting and filling forms, talking to people and helping them as much as I can...this is the way to change things.
                              Originally Posted by chuck13
                              In peace, sit.
                              In war, sit.
                              To every stranger, smile.
                              In abundance.
                              Make peace in your body/mind
                              and share it.
                              With everyone you meet.
                              And when you fail.
                              smile again. In Abundance.


                              Keeping the 'Dharma of the Buddha' alive has never been so important. Changing 'hearts and minds' as we are doing is not a military intervention, but a long arduous process of personal practice in our lineage of the Soto tradition.
                              How far this is from the immediacy of what is required in Syria.
                              We can only hope that there are enough wise people of skilful means on all sides to find a path through this minefield. As ever, the forces of ignorance, greed and anger make the front page news. We can only have faith that the wise are finding ways to operate behind these scenes.
                              Metta to those suffering and who have or will suffer and metta to those who find themselves about to make momentous decisions.
                              We can only continue with our own personal journeys and make the changes in our own small parts of the world. At some point a critical mass will develop, enough to put a stop to such irrationalism.
                              Gassho.
                              Heisoku 平 息
                              Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

                              Comment

                              • sittingzen
                                Member
                                • May 2010
                                • 188

                                #30
                                Thank you for posting, Jundo _/\_
                                Shinjin datsuraku, datsuraku shinjin..Body-mind drop off, mind-body drop off..

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