Military Action in Syria ...

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40679

    Military Action in Syria ...

    Zen Teacher James Ford has a piece on whether, as Buddhists, one might support possible military action in Syria in response to the chemical attacks, resulting deaths of nearly 1500 civilians and others suffering in that civil war.

    Reluctantly, I feel much the same as Rev. Ford ... that to do so may be the least evil of evils.

    We will also examine this and related questions when we sit with the Precept on Avoiding the Taking of life during our upcoming Jukai preparations.

    Rev. Ford writes ...

    What I feel is my moral obligation at this time as a parish minister standing within the heart of the community I serve to call us to reflection and hopefully out of that to help us as we each must make decisions about where to stand and what to do. I fear as I do I will disappoint many. That acknowledged, I will be faithful to my vows to you, and I will speak my best, my deepest.

    ...

    When I wrote on Facebook that I had to address this issue one friend suggest I preach how war is horrible. Certainly, true, but, far and away, not enough. In fact as I reflect on the great moral poles of war, pacifism and just war theory, I find both positions unsatisfactory.

    Just War theories, grounded in an assertion of a right to self-defense, which, particularly thinking of that monument on Beacon Street in Boston I accept as a deep truth, are nonetheless so easily, too easily subverted by nationalist sensibilities. And even at best, the unsheathing of the sword trails a ribbon of blood, a great pooling of unintended consequences. As for pacifism, when moved into the nitty-gritty of real life, in situations like the one we’re forced to face today with that whiff of poison gas hanging in the air, becomes an opting out of the responsibility individuals have toward one another, abandoning one’s family and neighbors for an abstract higher good, one that, to put it brutally, has never existed in reality.

    So, here I am.

    ...

    Here’s what I know from the bottom of my heart. The individual is precious, beyond calculation. And, at the same time, we don’t exist in isolation. In fact we have no existence outside of relationships. This is a harsh, and at the same time, if we consider it, a beautiful truth. We’re all in this together. Every single blessed one of us on this globe, every one of us. We are connected.

    ...

    We’re now watching the dying embers of the Arab Spring. It’s a mess. Democratic dreams have been captured by those who believe in one man one vote one time. In Egypt we see the response to a rising theocracy in a lurching back toward military dictatorship. In Syria the democratic Arab Spring fell into a smoldering revolution now in danger of being dominated by its own theocratic forces. I’m also painfully aware that among the various contending sects in Syria, the dictator Assad’s ruling Alouettes are the most liberal of the religious communities. The whole region is awash in tears and blood, all interconnected and complex. Shadows of the holocaust followed by the horrors of the nakba, dictators and princes, religious and ethnic hatreds. And, oh yes, oil. It seems no one has clean hands, and if we look at our own American hands in all this, they drip oil and blood. Wrong piles upon wrong, sadness upon sadness.

    And, in the immediate, in this moment, the whiff of poison gas hangs in the air. Me, I painfully recall 1988 when we didn’t act when another dictator gassed Iraq’s Kurds, perhaps our most natural allies, a lingering shame.

    I’m deeply concerned by the lack of a clear outcome from either action or nonaction in the face of those murders of civilian populations. I gather from several sources there’s a reluctance to strike the dictator personally or even to significantly degrade his forces for fear he will be brought down leaving the country to the mercies of the fundamentalists who appear to be the strongest and best prepared among the revolutionary contingents. It is a mess. It is a tangle of horrors.
    And, still, the whiff of poison gas hangs in the air. Yes, conventional war leaves so many innocents wounded and maimed and killed, as well. But, the potentialities for horror are in fact so present in the use of chemical warfare that we stand at the edge of something unimaginable, roiling along the ground, a spreading fog of murder.
    So, for us, for you and me, what are we to do?

    ...

    For me the reality is that it is impossible to be right. As the Zen tradition often notes, its all one continuous mistake.

    Me, I’ve decided, for the moment, the least evil stance is to not oppose these called for attacks that might degrade the Syrian dictator’s forces, to demonstrate that poison gas must not be reintroduced into modern conflict. Out of respect for the Kurds. Out of respect for those others who’ve been victim to these horrors, to prevent the reintroduction of this terror. To finally, finally draw a line in that one small regard, at last.

    ONE CONTINUOUS MISTAKE A Meditation in the Shadow of an Assault on Syria 1 September 2013 James Ishmael Ford Senior Minister First Unitarian Church

    I would merely add that sometimes, abiding by the Precept to Preserve Life and Avoid the Taking of life, it may be necessary to take life to save other lives and to restore peace. Such is my view and feeling.

    The Suttas and Sutras offered many opinions on these questions (having been written, of course, by men of many opinions), and modern teachers are of many minds on this.

    Here is something I posted once ...



    From the opinions of Buddhist teachers from various traditions which I have read, I would say that almost all who saw the need for some response involving the taking of life saw it as a "necessary evil" ... not as a path or goal in any positive sense. Sometimes we must break a Precept to keep a Precept. And given modern warfare, most of the teachers were aware that this might include the unavoidable taking of civilian and other "non-combatant" lives in order to save a much greater number of lives.

    I believe that the following responses, some by the Dalai Lama, are representative of the diversity of opinion.

    http://www.tricycle.com/p/1487 (the comments which follow are also very interesting)



    Thich Nhat Hanh may have been most representative of the "any violent response only leads to increased violence" opinion ...



    The Buddha also seems to have been of two minds on this. On the one hand, there are some writings in which he is framed to say that killing is never skillful.



    On the other hand, in other Sutta he did seem to countenance a nation having an army for certain limited purposes, and its discreet use.

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    Almost all the Buddhist teachers I can think of (including me too, for what it is worth) would say that we must also bear all the Karmic consequences of our volitional words, thoughts and acts, no matter whether we had a "reason" for killing or not.

    You may kill the cat, but you still likely have to pay the price in some way.

    A Tibetan teacher (Chagdud Tulku) relates this famous Jataka legend about a previous incarnation of the Buddha ...

    (In a previous life, the Buddha was Captain Compassionate Heart, sailing with 500 merchants. An evil pirate, Dung Thungchen (Blackspear) appeared, threatening to kill them all. )The captain, a bodhisattva himself, saw the [pirate]'s murderous intention and realized this crime would result in eons of torment for the murderer. In his compassion, the captain was willing to take hellish torment upon himself by killing the man to prevent karmic suffering that would be infinity greater than the suffering of the murdered victims. The captain's compassion was impartial; his motivation was utterly selfless.
    I am not sure about the effect of our Karma in lives to come ... but I do know that we likely will bear the effects of our actions in this life in some way. I have a friend, an ex-policeman, who had to kill someone in a perfectly necessary and justified act to save lives. Yet, my friend still carries that with him to this day.

    No, taking lives is never a "good" thing.
    It is important to remember too that Buddhists do not generally believe in "bad people", only in "people who do bad things" because they themselves are victims of greed, anger and ignorance within. The real evil doer is "greed anger and ignorance".

    Even if one is required to act in self-defense ... of one's own life, the life of another, or to protect society as in the case of a policeman or soldier ... one should best not feel anger even if forced to use force, one should nurture peace as much as one can, avoiding violence as much as one can, using violence as little as one can even when needed.

    Yes, most all flavors of Buddhism teach that, even should one be forced to break a Precept in a big or small way, one should bear the Karmic weight, reflect on having had to do so, seek as one can not to do so in the future.

    The case I usually mention is that friend of mine, a Buddhist policeman, who had to kill someone in the line of duty in order to save an innocent person held hostage. It was a perfectly justified, necessary shooting. However, from that day he always felt a kind of mental scar, a heavy weight ... even though he knew he had to do the right thing. He always felt the need to bring peace into the world in some measure to make up for what he had had to do. So it is for all of us if we must reluctantly support the use of violence in order to preserve life.

    Let me close with something recited by us in our Sutra Dedication ...

    We dedicate our hopes and aspirations:
    To all victims of war and violence and natural events
    To the injured and to all families touched by these tragedies
    To the healing of hatred in all countries and among all peoples
    To the wisdom and compassion of our world leaders
    To the peace of the world and harmony of all beings.


    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 09-02-2013, 02:45 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • YuimaSLC
    Member
    • Aug 2012
    • 93

    #2
    I, too, am forever affected by the image I saw in a photograph some years ago of the corpses of a Kurdish father and child laying in the village road after the Iraqi gassing.

    I am affected by the pain and suffering of children drowning in a classroom when the tsunami hits their building in March 2011.

    Restoring peace and living in harmony (with our natural environment, our neighbors, our countrymen) is and should be a constant effort. We should take effort to "set things right" while understanding that our limited knowledge may never truly comprehend how things "are". And we are motivated, with our original efforts of setting things right: to 'just protect" the afflicted, regardless of all the other complicated issues. And thus, we become involved in stopping the raping in the Balkans, and slaughter in Rwanda, and now, the use of chemical weapons upon it's own citizenry in Syria.

    Comment

    • Ishin
      Member
      • Jul 2013
      • 1359

      #3
      Thank you Jundo

      I find myself thinking that this terrible decision that has to be made to some extent IS our karma. Not so much as a result of what we have done, but also what we as a world community have NOT done, to try to bring an end to conflict in the middle east. A lesson is here in what happens when we are not proactive, just reactive. I very much include myself in those who have definitely not done enough to proactively resolve conflict with those around me. When we are confronted to watch others duke it out, physically or verbally, are we content to just sit on the sidelines and say "I'm a good person, I would never behave like that."?

      I have always liked this quote from Mother Theresa:

      "I would not be part of an anti-war rally, but if you are doing a pro peace march sign me up" Or something like that

      Gassho
      C
      Last edited by Ishin; 09-02-2013, 03:09 AM.
      Grateful for your practice

      Comment

      • Amelia
        Member
        • Jan 2010
        • 4980

        #4
        I agree that sometimes life must be taken, but I respectfully disagree that we should begin another costly and divisive conflict by military action in Syria.
        求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
        I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

        Comment

        • Kokuu
          Dharma Transmitted Priest
          • Nov 2012
          • 6867

          #5
          It is a desperately sad situation but I agree with Amelia on this. The urge to 'do something' is almost overwhelming but this situation calls for clarity and wisdom. There is no talk of ground forces but air strikes and what will these achieve aside from make Assad dig his heels in even further and take more desperate action of someone who knows the world is against them? Even if Assad is removed what is likely to remain is civil war with various factions, including those supported by Al Qaeda.

          Personally, I would want any diplomacy or action to be led by the leaders of other Middle East countries who have far more at stake in the region than we do. There is a tremendous desire for the US and Europe to police that area and sort things out but mostly our actions have made things worse. Assad's brutal attack is utterly horrible but I just don't think that our role should be any more than providing logistical and diplomatic support to Middle East leaders who should be supported to take the lead.

          May all beings be well, happy and free from suffering

          Gassho
          Andy

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 40679

            #6
            I want to emphasize that there is not "one right answer" on this, and viewpoints on the best (of many unfortunate) responses may vary.

            Life is not always a clear choice. Our Zen Way, if anything, is merely crystal Clear about and as that sometime lack of clarity.

            Gassho, J
            Last edited by Jundo; 09-02-2013, 09:01 AM.
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • Taigu
              Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
              • Aug 2008
              • 2710

              #7
              There is no easy answer here. 25 years ago I was fortunate to share the life, joys and sorrows of these beautiful people, and what I witnessed is beyond belief. The cruelty and barbaric atrocities committed in various places by the Syrian army led by the brother of Hafez , the father and founder of this dynasty, were told to me by people in tears and living in constant fear of the secret police, of torture , of just vanishing. Bashir, the son , has not learned the lessons and has just one language he speaks and understands: the sound of guns and bombs. And he is sitting heavily on a minefield as, he would disappear, extremists would tear apart the whole country and it would be real chaos. Hell with Bashir, hell without him. Meanwhile innocents fall. If we don t do anything ( and so far we did nothing) more innocents will fall. It is like giving this frightened dictator ( they are so dangerous when scared) the green light to carry on. He won t stop until opposition is turned into dust. And innocents will be targeted along with rebels. He does not care. This is something hard to grasp if you never lived in the Middle East. The Assad family and their clan are ready to do anything it takes to remain in power.

              Saya, my dear friend and Zen nun, is presumably dead by now, and many of the friends I knew and their kids. Sometimes we have to use violence, remember this is not Irak, this is not a lie, it is a complete different situation.

              Gassho


              Taigu

              Comment

              • Kokuu
                Dharma Transmitted Priest
                • Nov 2012
                • 6867

                #8
                Yes, you are right, Jundo, and the difficult thing is you can never know the outcome of any one action before starting it. Best guesses are just that but I hope all the world leaders are able to sit with what they know before committing to anything. There really should be a zazen training programme for presidents.

                I am so sorry to hear of your experiences and those of your friends, Taigu. I do not think that anyone is advocating no action or thinking the reports are a lie but what the action should be, who should take it and what the likely consequences will be are still very much open for debate. We very much need to ensure there is an integrated plan involving Middle East leaders, western military and diplomatic expertise, and humanitarian aid agencies and neighbouring countries who will need to pick up the pieces of refugees fleeing the country.

                Gassho
                Andy

                Comment

                • Juki
                  Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 771

                  #9
                  Ultimately, one would hope that we reach a situation in our evolution as human beings where those who aspire to positions of leadership understand that the word "govern" should alwasy be interpreted as "to rule wisely." But we are not there yet. Instead, in both despotic regimes (like Syria) and in so-called democracies (like the United States), our leaders more often act and react based upon the ingrained notions of the ego. They cling to power, rather than letting go when the time is necessary.

                  "The leader has to start the march, and then fall back and walk with the people." (Driving and Crying)

                  Gassho,
                  William
                  "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

                  Comment

                  • Myosha
                    Member
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 2974

                    #10
                    "All the world's mad but thee and me jock, and sometimes thee's a bit queer."
                    -Anonymous

                    One. . .life as it is. . .Grateful.


                    Gassho,
                    Edward
                    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

                    Comment

                    • Mp

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jundo
                      I want to emphasize that there is not "one right answer" on this, and viewpoints on the best (of many unfortunate) responses may vary.

                      Life is not always a clear choice. Our Zen Way, if anything, is merely crystal Clear about and as that sometime lack of clarity.

                      Gassho, J
                      I agree ... sometimes things are not that clear. Sometimes we need to stand up for people who cannot stand up for themselves.

                      Gassho
                      Shingen

                      Comment

                      • aroe1983
                        Member
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 12

                        #12
                        There is far from a clear answer on this issue and I am so conflicted. The atrocities that have been committed in this conflict are nearly beyond comprehension. How should the world respond, will a "limited" punitive strike help the people of the region. I have no idea but what I do know is that world has taken a hands off approach for over two years (with the responses from world leaders to this point being mostly substances-less sound bites) and that has been a mistake (not saying what the right action would have been, but more proactive).

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40679

                          #13
                          Unfortunately, such situations existed in the Buddha's time as they do in our time. This is the legendary story of how the Buddha's family, the Shakya clan, were wiped out in a massacre despite his early efforts to keep the peace ...

                          The most telling event in this particular story is Buddha’s final refusal to act to protect his
                          clansmen, the Sakyas, from their violent fate at the hands of King Virudhaka and the Kosala
                          army. Buddha asserts that their fate is inevitable, stating that “a fixed karma cannot be changed.”
                          King Virudhaka seeks vengeance on the Sakyas after he is insulted and humiliated by them. ...

                          Buddha lies down in the path of the invading Kosala Army and petitions King Virudhaka to give up his campaign of
                          violence against Buddha’s kinfolk, the Sakyas. At that time it was tradition that an invading army
                          must retreat if they are petitioned to do so by a holy man. Virudhaka’s army returns twice more
                          only to be sent back in deference to Buddha’s request. When Buddha receives word that the army
                          is making a fourth advance, he refuses to intervene on the Sakya’s behalf, stating that their
                          slaughter by Virudhaka’s army was an inevitable outcome resulting from the negative karma of
                          the Sakya clan.

                          ...

                          After King Suddhodana (the Buddha's father) had passed away, General Mahanama became the King of Kapilavastu. ... Meanwhile, Prince Virudhara, having seized power, announced that he was now King of [rival] Kosala and declared war on Kapilavastu [and the Shakyas].

                          When the Buddha learned of the impending conflict, he tried to stop the advancing Kosalan army by meditating under a dead tree on the face of the advancing King Virudhara.
                          The King did not like the Buddha at all, but he stopped his chariot and asked him, "You should be meditating under a Bodhi tree, not under a dead tree."
                          "You are right, " replied the Buddha, "but what is the use of a Bodhi tree without love and peace?"
                          It was customary those days in India that an army had to retreat if they came across a holy religious man on the way, and what they met was the Buddha. Therefore, following international protocol of those days, King Virudhara ordered his army to return home.
                          But soon King Virudhara mounted a second assault and a third assault, but each time he met the Buddha seating underneath a dead tree facing the advancing army. So according to ancient Indian international protocol, the Kasolan Army returned home.
                          The fourth time, however, the Buddha was not there, and King Virudhara's army marched straight towards Kapilavastu.
                          ...

                          "My Lord Buddha, " said Ananda, ... "why are you so sad?"
                          "The Sakya people will be massacred in a week," replied the Buddha sadly. "They had broken international protocol and insulted a Royal Prince from their neighbourhood Kingdom. They never felt sorry of what they did nor gave an apology. No matter what his ancestors was, a human being should be treated with respect. Therefore, the karma of the Sakya people had ripened and there is little I can do to help."

                          Story of Prince Virudhaka and the Massacre of Sakya Tribe http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Courtyard/1652/Story/Massacre.html Ancient India wa...
                          I hope that we someday see a world where there is room for everyone, all with sufficient food, water, housing, education, medical care, living in safety and peace with their human rights respected.

                          I feel that armies should best be used ... not to conquer territory or seize resources ... but only to keep the peace, protect human rights, protect innocent lives. Violence should be avoided if at all possible but, like a policeman protecting civilian lives, might sometimes have to be used if other options failed.

                          Alas, such a world is still but a dream, as much now as in the Buddha's time.

                          Gassho, J
                          Last edited by Jundo; 09-02-2013, 03:44 PM.
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • Ishin
                            Member
                            • Jul 2013
                            • 1359

                            #14
                            Taigu

                            My condolences on your personal loss, in this very tragic scenario

                            Metta
                            C
                            Last edited by Ishin; 09-03-2013, 04:20 AM.
                            Grateful for your practice

                            Comment

                            • Joyo

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Taigu
                              There is no easy answer here. 25 years ago I was fortunate to share the life, joys and sorrows of these beautiful people, and what I witnessed is beyond belief. The cruelty and barbaric atrocities committed in various places by the Syrian army led by the brother of Hafez , the father and founder of this dynasty, were told to me by people in tears and living in constant fear of the secret police, of torture , of just vanishing. Bashir, the son , has not learned the lessons and has just one language he speaks and understands: the sound of guns and bombs. And he is sitting heavily on a minefield as, he would disappear, extremists would tear apart the whole country and it would be real chaos. Hell with Bashir, hell without him. Meanwhile innocents fall. If we don t do anything ( and so far we did nothing) more innocents will fall. It is like giving this frightened dictator ( they are so dangerous when scared) the green light to carry on. He won t stop until opposition is turned into dust. And innocents will be targeted along with rebels. He does not care. This is something hard to grasp if you never lived in the Middle East. The Assad family and their clan are ready to do anything it takes to remain in power.

                              Saya, my dear friend and Zen nun, is presumably dead by now, and many of the friends I knew and their kids. Sometimes we have to use violence, remember this is not Irak, this is not a lie, it is a complete different situation.

                              Gassho


                              Taigu
                              Taigu, the fact that you lived there with these stories makes this all the more real and painful. I agree something needs to be done, no easy answers here though. Just so, so hearbreaking!! And my condolences in regards to your Zen nun friend, and the many others who you knew. I sincerely hope they are all in a more peaceful place now!!!

                              Gassho,
                              Treena

                              Comment

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