A few pointers from Genjokoan

[KellyRok]

To surrender, to drop body and mind, is to allow the great body of reality to fully live our life, and not to mind much, not to worry. It is not up to us to do the work. We are very good at messing things up.

I need to post this somewhere, so that I can see it every day! Oh, how I can mess things up .
Thank you for this.

Gassho,
Kelly/Jinmei

[Shujin]

Thank you for sharing.

Gassho.

[Ed]

Deep gassho Taigu.

[Marcelo de Valnisio]

Thank you, Taigu.

Gassho.

[Risho]

For LimoLama...

In the Genjokoan Eihei Dogen teaches about ashes being only ashes, firewood only firewood, he says that Spring does not become Summer. A child does not grow into an adult. We are lived by thusness and every manifestation has no before or after.

Taigu sensei,

Please bear with me, but I don't get this... this part of Genjokoan has always bothered me, irked me... because I want to understand it, but I can't.

Dogen writes about deep belief in cause and effect. Zen is all about cause and effect.. reality, this is now because of that. I can never wrap my head around this... it's like Dogen's throwing that to the wind and saying ash is only ash, but there wouldn't be any ash except for the firewood! In that sense, isn't the firewood part of the cause of the ash? Isn't the firewood before, and the ash after?

If we froze time, and we just saw the ash I guess it could be separated, but in reality isn't the ash only the result of the firewood? In reality time isn't frozen. From what perspective is Dogen speaking when he says ash is only ash?

I guess if I look at my life. The way I am now is a result of all the moments of my life... so childhood is before and where I am now is after that. But I suspect I am wrong and that's what Dogen is hitting upon, but I just don't understand.

Thank you for your time; like I said this has been driving me a little nuts. lol

Gassho,

Risho

[Daitetsu]

Hello Risho,

Taigu wrote this in response to a message of mine, so perhaps it would be helpful if I posted part of my original message to give some context?
(I was drawn between posting and not posting it...).
Anyway, I hope to give some context by this:

My original message:

When we sit we actualize the moon.
However, isn't it also the other way round? The moon actualizes itself through me, you, everything.
There is no finger pointing at the moon! The moon is looking at itself, all the time, whether "good" or "bad", whether we sit or not.
How beautiful, strange, extraordinary and somehow also ordinary...
But how to put this into practice in everyday life? This is the difficult part, I guess.

Gassho,

Timo

[Jinyo]

Hello Risho I share your struggle and thank you for being so honest in sharing your difficulty with this part of Dogen's teaching.

With Dogen - I don't mind too much if my logical mind comes to a screeching halt before a logical brick wall, but I find a poetic sensibility struggles with the summer/spring teaching. For me there is a certain point in the changing of seasons when spring imperceptibly bleeds into summer - summer into autumn - autumn into winter - winter into spring. There is a beautiful continuity of movement and time flowing. When I try to synthesize this with the discreet moment - no past no future it can a jar a little - even though I intuitively know this also to be true.

I think though the point is more to do with the whole of time being drawn within each moment - less to do with cause and effect? Because each moment is passing quickly we do not need to freeze time - it is perhaps the opposite to freezing time as the thusness of each moment becomes totally free. This is the beauty of Zen - we do not deny cause and effect but we are not shackled to it. The firewood and the ash may be logically connected but they are also totally liberated from each other.

I could be completely wrong on all this but it is my limited understanding thus far.

Gassho

Willow

[Heisoku]

Thank you Willow, I find understanding or seeing the thusness beyond cause and effect, before and later tricky, and you have helped describe this really well. Gassho.

[Taigu]

I think though the point is more to do with the whole of time being drawn within each moment - less to do with cause and effect? Because each moment is passing quickly we do not need to freeze time - it is perhaps the opposite to freezing time as the thusness of each moment becomes totally free. This is the beauty of Zen - we do not deny cause and effect but we are not shackled to it. The firewood and the ash may be logically connected but they are also totally liberated from each other.

Willow...you are a star. And the words you express are so in tune and true!
Tomorrow, I will take some time to answer an give a few other pointers to everybody.

For now, time to sleep.

Gassho


Taigu

[Oheso]

I think though the point is more to do with the whole of time being drawn within each moment - less to do with cause and effect? Because each moment is passing quickly we do not need to freeze time - it is perhaps the opposite to freezing time as the thusness of each moment becomes totally free. This is the beauty of Zen - we do not deny cause and effect but we are not shackled to it. The firewood and the ash may be logically connected but they are also totally liberated from each other.

this also helps my understanding and I thank you, Willow.

thank you, Taigu Sensei. what was written for LimoLama has also helped me.

gassho,

Robert

[Risho]

Thank you Limo and Willow!

Gassho,

Risho

[Heion]

Such beautiful words! I have been able to grasp so much of your wise words! The teachings of oneness are not so vague to me anymore!

The last paragraph I do not understand
"Thats why we sit and let the Buddha do it all." Does this mean to put reliance into some sort of Buddha or what? Is it relying while being independent and leaning while supporting oursleves? This I do not understand. Thank you for your patience and wise words.

Deep gassho,
Alex

[Taigu]

Hi Alex,

To let the Buddha do it all, is in my clouded eyes, not to rely on floating Buddhas in distant heavens, but simply to allow the true form that we are, the original face to manifest itself without interfering with fears, agendas, goals and targets( that is the messing side of things we are good at).

Gassho

Taigu

[Heion]

Thank you so much for clearing that up!

Much metta

[anzan]

Thank you.

Anzan