Have you been ripped off too?

[Joyo]

I've been thinking about this thread, the topic keeps coming up on Treeleaf that we will get "nothing" from our practice. I, however, don't feel that way, so am I doing something wrong?? I find, that if I have a couple of busy days and I don't sit for very long, don't truly practice the dharma, I get angry/bitter towards ppl that have hurt me and refuse to apologize, I get kind of arrogant that my views are better than others, and I get impatient with my kids. And these things are a warning to me, that I need to get back at it. So, what I get from Zen and sitting shikantaza are so, so many things---I am nicer to all beings and I'm calmer, more tolerant etc. . So, this is in a sense, why I practice. Is there something I am missing here, because forgive me, but I'm not understanding how we can get nothing from Zen and shikantaza.

gassho,
Treena

[Heishu]

Just my thoughts on how I see it.

Sitting does not take away my anger.
Sitting does not take away my frustrations with life.
Sitting is just sitting.

For me, my practice helps me with the many problems that I experience daily. When problems are hurling at me I try and adapt the Precepts to the situation at hand.

Does this always work? Nope! I will say that it is still better than what it would have been had I not taken a moment to think before reacting to the bad moments.

This is just for me though. Sitting is just sitting and practice is practice. Not easy but not hard but then again life would be worse without the two.

Gassho
Heishu

[Heion]

Sitting just for the sake of sitting. That sounds so crazy. So crazy, I still haven't rapped my mind around it.

Not as crazy as expecting results from it though.

Gassho,
Alex

[Jundo]

I've been thinking about this thread, the topic keeps coming up on Treeleaf that we will get "nothing" from our practice. I, however, don't feel that way, so am I doing something wrong?? I find, that if I have a couple of busy days and I don't sit for very long, don't truly practice the dharma, I get angry/bitter towards ppl that have hurt me and refuse to apologize, I get kind of arrogant that my views are better than others, and I get impatient with my kids. And these things are a warning to me, that I need to get back at it. So, what I get from Zen and sitting shikantaza are so, so many things---I am nicer to all beings and I'm calmer, more tolerant etc. . So, this is in a sense, why I practice. Is there something I am missing hiere, because forgive me, but I'm not understanding how we can get nothing from Zen and shikantaza.

gassho,
Treena

Treena, just because we say that we get nothing, does not mean that we get nothing.

We get something and work great changes. How? By giving up the constant need, lack, friction, division of our morning-to-night chase to get something, fill some hole. True peace and wholeness and contentment come, not from trying to fill some hole and get content ... but by realizing there is no hole not whole, no hole in need of filling (this hole is emptiness thus endlessly full), and being content ... even as simultaneously we try to fix things and grab a shovel to get to work because life's potholes need fixing. Kind of a Crazy-Sane Reverse Catch-22.

Time to point folks back to the beginner's talk mentioned this morning ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7699-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%28Part-VII%29

Gassho, J

[pinoybuddhist]

Hi Treena,
I feel a bit awkward chiming in after Jundo's post. But hey, if my understanding is incomplete the teachers can qualify/correct it so here goes:

I also get that experience at times when I don't sit regularly. I remember having a conversation with my wife years ago about my interest in zen and my practice, and at one point I said something like: "just imagine what I'd be like if I didn't practice" and she laughed and agreed that it does tend to help me manage my temper. So I think I understand where you're coming from.

At the same time, this practice will not turn you into someone other than who you already are - and in that sense you're not going to "get anything". At least not anything that you are not already are. There is nothing to get that you are not already are. This practice will not turn you into Buddha. You are Buddha and this practice expresses, manifests Buddha. Dogen wrote about a master fanning the air in Genjokoan. Practice is fanning the Buddhanature that already exists within/out/as you.

So if you find that you tend to be more patient and calmer when you practice regularly, don't think that those qualities came from something other than who you already are. You don't "get" them through practice anymore than fanning produces air - practice manifests them the way fanning makes the air felt. Something like that.

Gassho,

Rafael

[Joyo]

Jundo and Rafael, I think you both described in better words than I ever would what exactly is happening to me. Hard days are still there, they just are, and so are happy days. Yes, I am starting to get (in a very beginner way!!) that true peace comes from within, not trying to attain something or get somewhere.

I took a beautiful walk through the trees in a park 1 hr from our house a few weeks ago, with my husband and kids. Even that breathtaking, beautiful moment, it just was--no clinging, no wanting it to go on forever.

And, yes, I get that analogy of the fanning in the air, definitely something to think about.

thank you to both of you!!

Treena

[Jinyo]

I really appreciate those words Rafael,

thank you,



Willow

[Taigu]

Yes beautiful words. Very good understanding,Rafael. The metaphor of fanning comes from the end of the Genjokoan from Dogen. Dig it out. Air it!

Gassho

T.

[Myosha]

The blossom isn't, then is, then isn't. . .but always - nothing.


Gassho,
Edward

[Jundo]

I felt that fanning on this hot hot day, Raf. Lovely.

Gasshi, J

[Hans]

Hello,

thumbs up for the fanning! Nicely expressed.

Gassho and bows,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[Shokai]

Thanks for the fanning Raf, to John for the sales pitch and the non-contribution of others along this thread.
Isn't the essence of this included in the Christian Beatitudes?

Blessed are they who expect nothing for they shall not be disappointed

gassho,

[Genshin]

Thank you Rafael, much appreciate the fanning reference.

Gassho
Matt

[Koshin]

Thank you all for this thread and teachings

Gassho


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[Ishin]

I too feel like I am being ripped off. I have worked really hard all my life to build up anger, resentment, vanity, greed, lust, deceit, intolerance, impatience, impropriety, distrust, fear, confusion, arrogance and ignorance. Now you Zen people want to rob me of my accumulated wealth! I had to try really hard to build up this horrible mandala you know! Now you want me to fan it all away?!

I remember looking at my son staring out the window seeing rain fall from the sky for the first time. Is there anything more precious than this nothing?

Gassho
C