Struggles with Shikantaza

[lordbd]

Treeleaf Sangha, the atmosphere here has been so supportive as I attempt to wrap my mind around buddhist practice, that I feel comfortable sharing some struggles that I have been having.


Perhaps this is a common part of the practice, but Shikantaza has been very difficult for me. I am not sure if it comes from my background in doing different types of meditation, if it is just a stressful time for me, or if "just sitting" is just plain difficult for someone used to the frantic bustle of everyday life and everday thoughts. Either way, I am finding it harder and harder to hit the cushion. It is building up to almost a feeling of dread. As I sit, my mind races, my aches and pains are amplified. I feel tense. I feel stressed. I feel like I am doing it wrong even though I have an intellectual grasp on the fact that I CANT really be doing it wrong. Recent posts and discussions describing shikantaza here on the forums have been inspiring to me, but yet these feelings of almost-panic remain.

Could this be part of the transition from meditating strictly with the clear purpose of stress reduction to meditating without any real purpose?

As a beginner, should I be using a focus point as a form of training wheels? Building up samahdi before I graduate to Shikantaza?

I'm reading a book on Buddhist history by Carl Olsen, and he describes different stages of mindfulness (e.g. awareness of body and breath, awareness of feelings, etc.). I really like the idea of stages through which one can progress. But then again, I think that attachment to systematic improvement is probably one of my sticking points.

Anyway, to end this rant, I would just like to thank the Sangha for being there for me and to ask anyone who has had a similar experience to share whatever wisdom you feel would be helpful.

Strange to think that a grown man can't figure out how to JUST BE, but I suppose this is the way of things.

-Ben

[alan.r]

Treeleaf Sangha, the atmosphere here has been so supportive as I attempt to wrap my mind around buddhist practice, that I feel comfortable sharing some struggles that I have been having.


Perhaps this is a common part of the practice, but Shikantaza has been very difficult for me. I am not sure if it comes from my background in doing different types of meditation, if it is just a stressful time for me, or if "just sitting" is just plain difficult for someone used to the frantic bustle of everyday life and everday thoughts. Either way, I am finding it harder and harder to hit the cushion. It is building up to almost a feeling of dread. As I sit, my mind races, my aches and pains are amplified. I feel tense. I feel stressed. I feel like I am doing it wrong even though I have an intellectual grasp on the fact that I CANT really be doing it wrong. Recent posts and discussions describing shikantaza here on the forums have been inspiring to me, but yet these feelings of almost-panic remain.

Could this be part of the transition from meditating strictly with the clear purpose of stress reduction to meditating without any real purpose?

As a beginner, should I be using a focus point as a form of training wheels? Building up samahdi before I graduate to Shikantaza?

I'm reading a book on Buddhist history by Carl Olsen, and he describes different stages of mindfulness (e.g. awareness of body and breath, awareness of feelings, etc.). I really like the idea of stages through which one can progress. But then again, I think that attachment to systematic improvement is probably one of my sticking points.

Anyway, to end this rant, I would just like to thank the Sangha for being there for me and to ask anyone who has had a similar experience to share whatever wisdom you feel would be helpful.

Strange to think that a grown man can't figure out how to JUST BE, but I suppose this is the way of things.

-Ben

Hi Ben,

It seems like you've thought this through. What I mean is, it seems like you know what the "problem" is. You're not doing anything wrong. It can be a little difficult transitioning - many of us have gone through that. My advice would this: if you're panicked and stressed out, you need to go through that. If you sit and you are stressed and your mind is racing, just try to sit with that and accept that. In other words, don't stress out about the fact that you're stressed out. Don't stress out about the fact that you have monkey mind - it's okay! Just accept, wow, my mind is going nuts here, let me let it go, and see what happens. Maybe what you'll find is that you're just sitting there and all these thoughts are racing around; let them race around; don't fight them; just be aware that you're sitting.

I think Jundo suggests, for a particularly busy mind, counting breaths for a couple minutes at the beginning of sitting. But then just let go of the counting and just sit as above, I'd say.

I think I would also add this, though: if you feel like it's too much and that this is causing you harm, take a break from shikantaza for a couple days. Talk a walk, listening to the bugs chirping at night, drink a cup of tea. No need to push too hard.

Gassho and good luck (though you don't need it)

[lordbd]

Thank you Alan, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

[Kokuu]

Hi Ben

Alan's advice is good. When I sit I often get an increase in pain and mental activity first off too but can ride through that knowing it will usually build to a peak and then fall away again. Once you have done this a few times the anxiety tends to decrease and the waves of mental activity lessen too. It is a bit like one of those snow globes that sitting can shake up all the snow but after a while it all settles back down. The transition from object meditation to objectless can be a difficult one to make so give yourself time to get used to it..

If things are really too much to sit with, taking a break like Alan says or doing shorter sessions is no bad idea. I don't know if it is valid shikantaza advice but I find that dropping my centre of awareness to my hara/dan tien makes it easier to sit with emotional and physical material than being 'in the head'.

Gassho
Andy

[Kyonin]

Hello, Ben!

Just sit.

You will see that a lot around here, but it's true.

Just sit. I began with only a few minutes a day. I had a lot of questions and the noise/mental images wouldn't go away.

It was pretty hard at first because I was actively looking for answers and methods, for better ways to do it.

Until I surrendered and dropped everything. I stopped looking and sat there, staring at the wall.

Watch your thoughts come and go. When you hold onto one, just let it go. Your mind will catch the next one and ride it, but let it go.

Next thing you'll know, you'll be staring at a blue sky where thoughts drift away.

But then again...

Drop expectations, comparisons and questions.

And just sit.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[lordbd]

Karasu and Kyonin,

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. A part of me knew that this is part of the process, neither good nor bad, and that continuing to sit is probably really the only answer. Having those thoughts confirmed by a supportive community of fellow practioners does mean a lot to me. After this encouragement, I am actually sort of looking forward to facing the cushion this evening, just to see what arrises and how I react to it.

Thanks again!

-Ben

[Yugen]

I find in my own experience that when I get swept away in the flow of daily frenetic activity I am pulled in many different directions at once and do nothing singlemindedly, with attention or mindfulness. This is usually accompanied by an attitude of irritation and impatience.

When it comes time to sit it is almost impossible to sit still. The ego will do its best to fight stillness. Its like the volume has been turned up and it's deafening. The ego will generate all sorts of noise and restlessness, and definitely manifest as fidgetiness and even rapid breathing.

Being aware of this ego activity is important. Instead of forcing yourself to sit, maybe as has been suggested try short sessions - two minutes, then five, then ..... Just let the stream of thoughts go by and notice no matter how loud the volume is. It is just noise.... Two minutes of real stillness is something substantial.

You can do it!

Gassho
Yugen

[Jakugan]

When I first flirted with meditation I used to expect that I was sitting to try and achieve a perfect mindset. Being far from perfect myself I was bound to fail. Now i try to accept what comes and if I can't, that is ok too. That is what practice is for. I try to sit even if the mind doesn't want to. I find it helps to reinforce the idea that zazen exists beyond my likes or dislikes.
gassho,

simon

[lordbd]

10-minute zazen tonight (using the treeleaf meditation timer!). All of the same issues arose, anxiety, racing thoughts, aches and pains, almost panic!

However, I did feel a little different, in terms of not punishing myself for having those experiences. I tried to just sit and sort of nod to them as has been suggested above, and after 10 minutes I got up and moved on to some other things. No incredible feeling of peace, wisdom, or concentration. I do feel like perhaps I'm at the beginning of an important life lesson :-).

Thanks again to everyone for their thoughtful support.

[Mp]

10-minute zazen tonight (using the treeleaf meditation timer!). All of the same issues arose, anxiety, racing thoughts, aches and pains, almost panic!

However, I did feel a little different, in terms of not punishing myself for having those experiences. I tried to just sit and sort of nod to them as has been suggested above, and after 10 minutes I got up and moved on to some other things. No incredible feeling of peace, wisdom, or concentration. I do feel like perhaps I'm at the beginning of an important life lesson :-).

Thanks again to everyone for their thoughtful support.

Hey there Ben,

Thanks for the post ... I see my fellow treeleafer's have provided some amazing advice.

First off, try to not look to gain anything, ie: a state of incredible peace, wisdom, or joy. Just sit, just be the experience, with the experience through and through ... even if the experience is uncomfortable, this too is Shinkantaza.

For me, when struggles or discomfort comes, I just sit with the knowing that all life is impermanent, even the sore back, anxiety, racing thoughts, and panic are impermanent. The more you practice, the more confidence you have on knowing that you will be OK, regardless of what the mind might be telling you.

Be well, be patient, we are here if you need support.

Gassho
Shingen

[Nameless]

Ben,

Don't worry buddy this kind of thing is natural. All the advice that the others have given is superb. Just sit with it, Sit with the anxiety, the pain, the panic. You said in the original post, "I am not sure if it comes from my background in doing different types of meditation, if it is just a stressful time for me, or if "just sitting" is just plain difficult for someone used to the frantic bustle of everyday life and everyday thoughts," it's probably a mixture of all of these things and more.

Shikantaza has a way about it, that it can bring forth all of the darkness, all of the little things that you've hidden from yourself at first. This too is natural, and it can dissuade many from practice. This is because at first you are sitting with you. After a time you are sitting with you and the universe, and then the two come together because you were never apart. Then, there is just sitting and when you sit, everything is sitting with you. When these distressing thoughts and feelings arise, accept them and then let them go. Don't push them away, let them wash over you and then let them wash away. Just breathe and be and the raging ocean of your mind will grow placid. It is inevitable. Much Metta to you my friend.

Gassho, John

[alan.r]

1 No incredible feeling of peace, wisdom, or concentration.

That's it!

Remember, that is it (whatever it is: life/existence/whatever) too!

[Risho]

The cool thing about Shikantaza is that if we stick through it long enough we learn that although our thoughts may be swirling about, and causing us great distress, we don't have to listen to them, we can watch them... not push them away, or grab on and add fuel to the fire but just watch them. And in doing so we just sit there and accept who we are, what we are. This is how we learn who we are.

Most importantly, I have learned that I don't have to act on this chaos, and that most times I create it... truthfully all times I create what I'm thinking... just reactions to me. When I have a chaotic day, or when I am chaos, my practice is a swirl of thoughts as well.

Sometimes when I sit, I wonder why do my legs hurt, or why do I have to keep sitting up, why can't I do it right? hahahaha just more of my funny thoughts. What a dumb perfectionist I am, as if Shikantaza could be boxed up and I could get a ribbon for doing it "right".

Gassho,

Risho

[Nameless]

Ben,

I'm reading Zen Mind Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki (highly recommended) and here's a passage that made me think of your plight: "If you want to obtain perfect calmness in your zazen, you should not be bothered by the various images you find in your mind. Let them come, and let them go. Then they will be under control. But this policy is not so easy. It sounds easy, but it requires some special effort. How to make this kind of effort is the secret of practice. Suppose you are sitting under some extraordinary circumstances. If you try to calm your mind you will be unable to sit, and if you try not to be disturbed, your effort will not be the right effort. The only effort that will help you is to count your breathing, or to concentrate on your inhaling and exhaling. We say concentration, but to concentrate your mind on something is not the true purpose of Zen. The true purpose is to see things as they are, to observe things as they are, and to let everything go as it goes. This is to put everything under control in its widest sense. Zen practice is to open up our small mind. So concentrating is just an aid to help you realize 'big mind,' or the mind that is everything.

Gassho, John

[Oheso]

to concentrate your mind on something is not the true purpose of Zen. The true purpose is to see things as they are

something tells me: not "purpose" not "by-product", not "consequence" -as in roof tile ≠ mirror sense
samadhi prerequisite to kensho? I thought so.

Rob, and

isn't sitting, physically, as an incarnate, sentient being in an empirically perceived space, a metaphor or re-enactment of the Something/ Nothing dichotomy? the world playing its part and shikantaza as Nothing?