new member

[Guest]

Hello everyone,

I am a new forum member, writing from Denmark.
I've practiced meditation for some years now. Got started with zen in Spain, lived three months in Jiko An and even tried the Japanese trip but my anarchists ideas and my questioning of authority left me no place in that tradition.
Then J. Krishnamurti, Yoga, and finally Theravada where I found the theoretical bagground for my practice which always has been centered around sitting meditation.
Though I knew of treeleaf zendo before it is now I have decided to get involved with you. I have been in a 4 days lonely retreat and there I was virtually pushed to Hongzhi's silent illumination teachings so I wanted to know more about Dogen's shikantaza.
I won't be mixing any teachings, nor comparing, nor trying to show you how much I do (not) know. My sole purpose is to explore meditation as taught in this open and accessible group and see how deep I can get in this exploration with you.
I'm waiting my copy of Opening the hand of thought so I can get to work!!

I look forward having a rich dialog with you

[Jun]

Welcome, welcome. Dive right in and immerse yourself!

"....my questioning of authority..." A very good and healthy attitude, I might add!

gassho

[PapaDoc]

Welcome David. I think you will find this a good place to be, whatever questions you may bring.
Again welcome.
David aka PapaDoc

[Bansho]

Hi David,

Welcome, nice to have you here with us.

Gassho
Ken

[Shohei]

Hi and welcome!

Gassho
Dirk

[John]

Hi David, Welcome to Treeleaf. After reading your message I'm now wondering whether Zen is anarchistic or authoritarian. I previously thought it was communitarian.....

Gassho,
John

[Eika]

Welcome!

Bill

[Mika]

Hi david and welcome!

Questioning authority is a good thing, but just because you question it doesn't mean you shouldn't obey your boss (at least if you want to keep your job ). 8)

If you'd like to share your experiences I'd be interested to hear exactly what kind of trouble did you end up with the Zen tradition you tried?

[david]

Thank you for the warm welcome!

Hi David, Welcome to Treeleaf. After reading your message I'm now wondering whether Zen is anarchistic or authoritarian. I previously thought it was communitarian.....

If you'd like to share your experiences I'd be interested to hear exactly what kind of trouble did you end up with the Zen tradition you tried?

Actually I don't know whether zen is anarchistic, authoritarian or communitarian. I'm sure anyway that there are as many zens as people practising, preaching and reading about it.

At the time i was practising zen (middle 90's) I found the samurai zen: don't talk too much, sit until your legs fall apart, don't read and so on. In Japan I met the traditional monastery training which reminded me so much the military system I had been protesting against years back in Spain. Then there was the master-disciple relationship which I sometimes found almost sectarian and blind.
These were some reasons that forced me to keep on looking the way. I must anyway say that the zen teachings were with me almost all the time and the knowledge that all not zen is the same: the place I mentioned before, Jiko An is a very open place, where the practice is wonderfully followed.

But I don't want to center on what was but on what is on right now. I don't know, John, if zen is communitarian or not. Is it something you believed or you believe now? I just can say that if I am going to wait for it to become communitarian then I will wait a long time! Just practice is just that, I can't wait to do it with others.

[Rev R]

Welcome and whassup David.

Hi David, Welcome to Treeleaf. After reading your message I'm now wondering whether Zen is anarchistic or authoritarian. I previously thought it was communitarian.....

Hey John
To your wonderings and thoughts I say, yes.

But that is just me.

R

[Longdog]

Welcome David and thanks for the insight into your experiences so far.

Gassho

Kev

[Dainin]

Welcome David.

[John]

But I don't want to center on what was but on what is on right now. I don't know, John, if zen is communitarian or not. Is it something you believed or you believe now?

I don't really know David. I studied political philosophy at one time and your message resonated with that :-) The communitarian claim that we are shaped by and get our values from the society we live in (like co-dependent origination?) seems more Zen-like to me than the liberal view that we are atomistic self-determining individuals . But I am not concerned with all that philosophical stuff any more. Like you say, Zen is a more experiental study,

Gassho,
John

[david]

Zen is a more experiental study,

Gassho,
John

... and there is where I'm sitting. :wink:

Gassho

[Gregor]

Welcome,

I look forward to learning with you.

see in the book club, I think we've got a rather nice book to get into together.

take care,

Greg