SHOBOGENZO: 1. Bendowa 'On the endeavour of the way'

[Kokuu]

Hi all

I am going to mull over Bendowa today and hopefully post something later, although eldest daughter is home from school sick. Don't feel you have to wait for Matt or I to say anything, though, before weighing in with your own ideas.

• What are you overall impressions of the fascicle?
• Which lines particularly speak to you?
• Are there any parts you struggle to understand?
• How does Bendowa feed into your practice?


Gassho
Andy

[Myosha]

". . .self-fulfilling samahdi is its standard."

That's a nice summation.


Gassho,
Edward

[Jishin]

". . .self-fulfilling samahdi is its standard."

That's a nice summation.


Gassho,
Edward

I like this summation better:

"Sitting upright, practicing Zen, is the authentic gate to free yourself in the unconfined realm of this samadhi."


"When even for a moment you sit upright in samadhi expressing the buddha mudra [form] in the three activities [body, speech, and thought], the whole world of phenomena becomes the buddha mudra and the entire sky turns into enlightenment."


Dogen, Zen Master (2013-02-05). Treasury of the True Dharma Eye: Zen Master Dogen's Shobo Genzo



Gassho, John

[Kokuu]

"Sitting upright, practicing Zen, is the authentic gate to free yourself in the unconfined realm of this samadhi."

Yes, and there is so much on just the first page of this. I like the way he tackles head on that having Buddha nature does not mean no practice: "Although the inconceivable dharma is abundant in each person, it is not actualized without practice, and it is not experienced without realization."

The next two lines are a beautiful description of the feeling of being actualized by myriad dharmas:

"When you release it, it fills your hand - how could it be limited to one or many? When you speak it, it fills your mouth - it is not bounded by length or width."

The releasing theme is echoed further down the page when Dogen explains that the concentrated endeavour of the way involves going beyond in the path of letting go. The way is not about attaining but releasing and dropping away.


Gassho
Andy

[Fugu]

Jundo,

WOW, I am blown away by the depth of your reply. MANY thanks for this. You even answered the questions I should have asked but was too dumb to. Unfortunately, $899 is over-budget for me, so I'll just follow the discussion, if I may.

Gassho,
Fugu

[Jundo]

Jundo,

WOW, I am blown away by the depth of your reply. MANY thanks for this. You even answered the questions I should have asked but was too dumb to. Unfortunately, $899 is over-budget for me, so I'll just follow the discussion, if I may.

Gassho,
Fugu

You must mean for the now out of print hardcover set of Tanahashi Sensei's translations. There is a $60 Kindle, or you may just want to get one of his shorter books that contain key fascicles of the Shobogenzo (Like Moon in a Dewdrop or his new one here, although they do not contain more than the most "popular" fascicles) ...

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Dogen-Writings-Great-Master/dp/1611800412/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373671525&sr=1-1

... or use one of the other online translations, even though the phrasing and wording will be different, and you will sometimes have to figure out which line people are referring to.

It is all good.

Gassho, J

PS - "Fascicle" is the word that people tend to use instead of "Chapters", because each talk and essay was meant as a stand alone independent work that were later collected together, not a chapter in a whole. However, in Zen, independent is dependent, and parts are whole of course!

[Jishin]

There is a $60 Kindle

I think the price dropped to $39.99 for the Kindle version at amazon.

Digital List Price:	$100.00 What's this?
Print List Price:	$100.00
Kindle Price:	$39.99 includes free wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
You Save:	$60.01 (60%)

Here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Treasury-True-...mm_kin_title_0

Gassho, John

[richss]

I'm in. I bought the Kindle edition.

Gassho, Richard

[MyoHo]

Hi guys

Great discussion and thank you for starting up this thread. I’m no scholar, so I think it’s cool to have a guided examination of these texts by some true scholastic minds here in our sangha.

The reason the Bendowa comes first I think, is because the first sentences or paragraph is the whole of Dogen’s teaching. That ís Zen. After that, in the Shobogenzo, he explains ( in detail, up to how to go to the toilet correctly) how to live, how to act, how to think following the “criterion”. So not just sitting on your bum every now and then but living it! Acting as if wearing Rakusu or Kesaya the same way both in daily life ( as some of us know, I’m a big fan of that) and in the "zendo".

The thing with many of Dogens texts is that the first paragraph contains the whole message without an attempt to explain or to simplify. Like Steven Hawking talking about the universe the way he would talk to himself. The first two sentences should not be stepped over lightly. It seems the more we study them, the more there appears to be in it.

I think with the Shobogenzo, Dogen is saying something like: “Listen up you religious snobs! You want to know Buddha Dharma? You think you are Buddhist smart and have everything figured out using your brain? Here you go, have a bite of this Zazen I’m bringing to you now. Confused yet? GOOD! How about them apples! This is no joke, it’s huge, of epic significance and it is easily hard and hardly easy! You say I personally invented it? Nope, we can trace everything I say all the way down to the ancestors and Buddha himself. It’s origins cannot be disputed” Well, something like that and much more anyway.

A few issues and questions that come to mind when reading this segment:

“All Buddha-Tathagatas together” Well, just can’t fathom or estimate how huge that is. All of them, together!

“Simply transmitting..” Simply? Transmitting? We can’t exchange anything between us. Every person is a world in itself and there cannot be any exchange or transmission between them. Can you carry the burden of illness or sorrow for someone else? Can we truly express or transmit feelings? Yet, it can be done when it comes to the wondrous dharma. It is subtle and wondrous! How to look at this? Something to sit with for a long time.

“Actualizing annatura samyak sambodhi...” What is that? The dictionary says Supreme enlightenment, the ultimate awareness. Ehhhh, right, yes, ok? So, what is it really? I don’t know. These Tathagatas Dogen speaks of however, are not just talking about it, debating or discussing the possibility of an existence of this, no they are actualizing, making it so. How? By sitting!!!!!!!!!! Wait a minute….. You can sit and I can sit! That means…. WOW!!!!!! Something to sit with.

“A wondrous method” initially sounds like there is some secret Buddha technique only known if obtained through a nonexistent transmission between Buddha tathagatas ( the highest Buddhas) that we could use. So that’s is the ultimate way of saying “forget it guys, no chance in a million years we can get that!” Still, we know Dogen does not mean that. Every moment is whole and complete and every person is whole and perfectly complete. Like our teachers keep telling us and explaining. Nothing to gain nothing to lose, each moment in itself is perfect. Nothing lacking. Wholeness! It’s not impossible, its already there! You already have that ability. You just don’t know it yet. WOW!!! Still Dogen speaks to us of something wondrous and mysterious it seems. Yes, every moment is perfect and yet, by practicing we move towards something huge and amazing, Buddha realization and it can ONLY be not-achieved by sitting shikantaza. Attaining without aiming. Getting there without going. Just by sitting!!!!! Something to sit with.

“The criterion is Jijuyu zanmay” Again, say what? This criterion alone is a lifetime of study in that one little statement! No fair! I investigated this by reading several commentaries and pondering over it. Another translator notes Jijuyu zanmai to be something like “the self settling upon the self”. It is Zazen itself. It is our very practice in that one sentence. The self being only the self in the present that is only the present. We all know how hard it is to put into practice what is said in that simple statement. It is almost impossible IF you want to measure it in terms of this and that. Here is bad and there is better. Enlightened and deluded. Novice or advanced etc. The moment you think of sitting in these terms, then yes it is impossible. Even worse, without correct practice we can never reach that goalless goal, even if we sit 50 million years. So sitting with a goal is useless. Again, Something to sit with ( especially this one in my hopeless case).


It is an amazing passage that often rings my bell!

Gassho
Enkyo

[Kokuu]

Enkyo! Thank you for adding so much substance to the discussion. Yes there is so much there in the first paragraph and it is clear why this is presented as the first fascicle. Genjokoan is often considered to be a summation of Dogen's teachings but this seems to as well. I have only just started reading Shobogenzo, though, so maybe they all are!

Anuttara Samyaksambodhi is indeed a mystery as is the wondrous art. The fact it is unconditioned is interesting as Shakyamuni says all things are conditioned. So what is this unconditioned art? If conditioned things all rest on other things this art must rest on nothing at all. To borrow from my previous tradition if I may:

Consider space: what depends on what?
Likewise, mahamudra: it doesn’t depend on anything.
Don’t control. Let go and rest naturally.
Let what binds you let go and freedom is not in doubt.

-- Tilopa, Ganges Mahamudra

Also, as you say, what is this transmission? Since we cannot share even a moment of our experience, how can anything be transmitted? The sentence 'only buddhas transmit it to buddhas without veering off' strikes me in two ways. Firstly, if only buddhas can receive it then how can it be transmitted to non-buddhas? Secondly, though, are we not all buddhas or potential buddhas? Or can we only receive it completely when we stop veering off? I have heard transmission described by analogy of a tuning fork in which the receptive Samadhi state of the teacher brings out a similar state in the receptive student.

The last sentence at least gives us something we can work with. 'Sitting upright, practicing Zen, is the authentic gate to free yourself in the unconfined realm of this Samadhi. Hurrah, something we can understand! (well aside from the unconfined realm of this samadhi bit ;-) )

Shall we sit then?

Gassho
Andy

[Genshin]

Hi all,

Apologies, I've been rather quiet and absent from this discussion and the forum for the past week or so. Work and endless job interviews have taken priority over dharma study. I've only just picked up Shobogenzo this morning.

I like this description of zazen or the "front gate for buddha dharma" as Dogen later explains:

"This being so, the zazen of even one person at one moment imperceptibly accords with all things and fully resonates through all time. Thus in the past, future, and present of the limitless universe, this zazen carries on the buddha's transformation endlessly and timelessly. Each moment of zazen is equally the wholeness of practice, equally the wholeness of realization (p. 7)"

On page 4 Master Dogen writes about what appears to be his expectation for "spreading the teachings & saving sentient beings". He then goes on to say "I have put aside the hope of having the teaching prevail everywhere until the time of surging opportunity". What do folks make of "surging opportunity"? There is mention of this in the index but it only quotes the Japanese (gekiyo no toki) Is it the same as when opportunity presents itself perhaps?

Gassho
Matt

Hi all

I am going to mull over Bendowa today and hopefully post something later, although eldest daughter is home from school sick. Don't feel you have to wait for Matt or I to say anything, though, before weighing in with your own ideas.

• What are you overall impressions of the fascicle?
• Which lines particularly speak to you?
• Are there any parts you struggle to understand?
• How does Bendowa feed into your practice?


Gassho
Andy

[Taigu]

Hi guys,

While in Anyo in, an abandonned temple, a small hermitage and after having left Kennji and the capital Kyoto, Dogen writes in the form of a mondo, questions and answers, about the basic directions of his teaching. This text is an excellent choice as it is also the text I give my students to read first.

Transmission. What does Dogen mean by transmission? transmission is threefold in our tradition. First and foremost, the Dharma is given by the whole reality itself to everyone and therefore can be received , second the Buddha mind seal (zazen)is transmitted not through paper, earth, or even water but through space, in other words sit and the whole reality sits with you, sit and the myriads things are sitting you too. Third, transmission is posible from teacher to student in denpo, shiho. I think Dogen talks about these three aspects of transmission here.

Gassho

Taigu

[Heisoku]

Just a few uninformed observations from reading Bendowa.
Firstly, the way Dogen introduces his approach to the Dharma of the Buddha is very much like the introduction of an academic text, whereby an author sets out his or her theory of practice and the background to their approach. He explains his reasons for the pure practice of zazen and what shikantaza is, and this seems to be aimed at his ideas about what reformations of the practice of Buddhadharma need to be and should be, after his trip to China.
Secondly the QA format reminds me of the Prajnaparamita Sutra and provides a means in which he can address issues and arguments that may have arisen when discussing his reforming approach.
Thirdly, he repeatedly describes zen as the ' samadhi of receiving and using the self', which I have thought of (probably not correctly so) as attaining a natural balance between inner and outer 'being' so there is only 'oneness'. In this he sees zazen as the only means that leads to realisation.
Lastly, Dogen emphasises the fact that Buddhadharma is open to everyone, as 'everyone has the seeds of prajna', that no intellection is necessary. Realisations have occurred without wisdom, scripture, words or speech and all that is needed is right trust in the practice.
Gassho.

[chicanobudista]

If there is no problem for us to hear the discussion, but not able to able buy the book, I'm interested.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Kyonin]

If there is no problem for us to hear the discussion, but not able to able buy the book, I'm interested.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Hola Erik!

You don't need to buy it. It's online for free in sites like this:

http://www.zenki.com/index.php?lang=en&page=bendo01

Hope that helps.

Gassho,

Kyonin