"Zen Confidential: Confessions of a Wayward Monk" (Book Review)

[MyoHo]

Well said chuck13. I second that.

Gasho

Enkyo

[Jundo]

Hi Chuck,

Oh my yes, we are not banning books, burning books or forbidding folks to read whatever they wish! Oh no! It is just that I cannot recommend the book or, if someone reads it, I want to offer a caution and comment.

Like with many things, my criticism has probably caused some folks to buy the book who otherwise might not have, just to see what all the fuss is about.

Gassho, J

[Jinyo]

Hi there - I'm just wondering if William will come back to this thread and hoping he hasn't taken too much offence?

I didn't read Jundo's comments as at all critical in a negative way - (and I can be super-sensitive over this 'thwacking' notion ) he's just saying what he feels about the book and giving some guidance. I do remember that we were asked to run book recommendations past Jundo or Taigu but that seems a bit of a burden on them as they can't be expected to have read everything? Have to admit I'd forgot about that request.

Back to the notion of 'thwacking' - personally I'd really like to get rid of that word. There are interventions made here that are clearly 'Zen' interventions - but this thread (IMHO) is just about a book criticism and some teaching guidance as concerns the content.

To see it otherwise makes it seem as though we're all being 'thwaked' the whole time and should be going round seeing stars

Sometimes a comment is just a comment - yes?

Gassho

Willow

[Amelia]

The word, or onomatopoeia, "thwack", to me, describe that sudden, biting moment when you come crashing through a wall of your own opinion into open space, an obvious draw from how the kyosaku straightens a sitter into wakefulness. In fact, "thwack" might be going too easy. How about "crash, stumble, burn and cry over your ego for a few days then pick yourself up and realize that you don't want to run from the mean old teacher who taught you a lesson"?

And the word, "thwack" was used in context of my own experience. Can I not use the words I choose to describe my own experience? Feel free to use your own and please feel free to avoid that word altogether. Honestly, I could care less what words people use, deemed offensive or not. I'll let context help me to decide and keep trying to be a nice person, myself.

Words are not words, therefore we call them words. A thwack is not a thwack, therefore we call it a thwack.

And look how easily it looses meaning:

thwack
thwack
thwack
thwack
thwack...

Doesn't even look like it means anything.

[Jundo]

I meant to thwack the book, not thwack William. I hope that is not misunderstood.

Gassho, J

[Jinyo]

Hi Amelia - of course you're free to use the word 'thwack' however you wish. Words have many connotations and our response and use of them can be highly individual. I do understand that to be 'thwacked' - 'hit' - can have a positive connotation and is connected to the revelatory. Apologies if my words caused offence.

What I was attempting to say is that within a given context words also have a shared meaning. For myself - I do care very much how words are used. I understand I'm probably in a minority in needing to explore why the language of Zen sometimes concerns me, when embedded within the notion of being 'hit' in a figurative way - and also interested to explore how that plays out in teaching methods and student responses/learning.

There's been quite a few references on the message board recently by members relating to this, saying they welcome being 'hit' (figuratively speaking ) - how they learn from this, etc.
Conversely - (sorry can't pin-point the thread) one member stated quite clearly she did not like to be 'hit'.

I empathise more with the latter point of view - that is all. I find I don't relate well to the stern Zen master image - and sometimes wonder if it would be possible to make an intervention without recourse to it.

The point of this is just to tentatively suggest that the emphasis could maybe be evened out a little so that there's less of an atmosphere of a student automatically thinking 'well that must have been the verbal equivalent to the keisaku' - because that's the way it's always been done in Zen.

However - in this case I do feel the intention was clear - Jundo thwacked the book not William.

Gassho

Willow

[Juki]

Hmmmm. Well, while you may have MOSTLY been thwacking the book, to the extent that I recommended the book, your emphatic negations (zen car crash, example of what can go wrong, etc.) are clearly a thwacking of me. No problem there, however. This is not, as Amelia suspected, an ego issue. This is fundamentally a Zen issue, or at least a Zen teaching issue.

if this practice promises us anything (and most will tell you that there are no promises), it promises that with sincere practice, we can come to know our own hearts and minds in the present moment. In this moment, my heart and mind tell me that it is not my job to judge the actions of others. It is my job to learn from those actions.

jundo's response would have you believe that there is nothing that we can learn from Sasaki (who, again, is never mentioned by name in the book) and his students. I disagree. We may witness a dozen small acts of kindness in any given day, but how many of them really sink in and take root? Mostly, they are either unnoticed or, if noticed, easily forgotten. But the horrific acts hang with us forever. Those are true teaching moments, because they startle us into the realization that there is a path and that someone has wandered far off that path. The horrific acts provide the context which allows us to appreciate those small acts of kindness.

those horrific acts keep the rest of us on the path. Saints need sinners far more than sinners need saints.

gassho,
william

[Taigu]

No ego issue? Really, William, are you sure? Absolutely sure it is true?

You see, you are not targetted here. Jundo made a point about how much this is not an exemple, that 's all. There is no thwacking at all.

By the way, the point you are making about sinners inspiring saints, is rather rhetorical. There is no doubt that our own delusion can be inspiring. This is the very core of Dogen s vision as exposed in Genjokoan, Buddhas are enlightened about their own delusions. That being said, the vision of abuse and suffering is just plain sad, my friend. Would I need this, ask for this to fuel my practice, I would turn into a spiritual blood sucker, a Zen vampire feeding his journey with people downfall, misery and twisted lifes. The young Gautama did not spend his life going out of the palace and seing over and over again suffering to understand he had to do something. Once was enough.

Take care William and open your heart to this boundless generosity of life, your life.

Gassho

Taigu

[Seizan]

Thank you all for this thread- I purchased this book on my ereader at an airport before a flight, knowing nothing about the author, his teacher or his group. I find the writing witty and funny and poignant... which is a bit sad with all the other things that come to light. I can imagine someone who doesn't research well being quite a bit mislead. I do find it a bit inappropriate that he skirted such major issues and scandals, but I do think (like Jundo said) that he has straightened up, maybe with the assistance of his zen practice. I still have a profound respect for all mentioned in the book, all brave enough or smart enough or stupid enough to enter into a monastic life or try to. Thank you all for this debate and information.

Gassho
Seizan