No need to do zazen, therefore must do zazen

[jus]

^agree! well put. i didn't necessarly choose this. and ive tried to choose other things. for some reason im here and not at a thai forest monastery or working with a lama somewhere or even in an ashram. those aren't bad things, but (and as an American i can choose whatever path, because theyre all avaialable-more or less) maybe my causes and conditions led me here and to zazen, which is a great thing, if anything good could be said for my past actions! (ie its led me here, while many to early graves). definantly puts gratitude for practice into some perspective. gassho, justin

[Mp]

I don't know why I sit. I just do. Feels natural. A part of me. Like breathing.

Gassho,

Kyonin

Nicely said brother ... I feel the same way ... it just resonates from the marrow of my bones.

Gassho
Shingen

[Jishin]

No need to do zazen, therefore must do zazen

I don't know why I sit. I just do. Feels natural. A part of me. Like breathing.

Gassho,

Kyonin

Me too! :-)

Gassho, John


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[lobster]

When I heard of shikantaza meditation, I confused it with shiitake mushroom. Now I realise that we have to practice in the dark with our own BS.

[Matt]

Thanks for posting, Andrea. I really enjoyed the article, as well as the discussion here.

One of my struggles is practicing with no 'gaining mind.' I find that this gaining thing comes up unconsciously for me. For example, I am interested in taking the precepts. However, I often find myself thinking that if I do so, then I will finally be a 'real' zen student.

So, how to do so without this gaining mind.

Again, thanks for your post.

Gassho,
Matt J

[Daitetsu]

For example, I am interested in taking the precepts. However, I often find myself thinking that if I do so, then I will finally be a 'real' zen student.

So, how to do so without this gaining mind.

Just another thing to drop...

One day a young Buddhist on his journey home came to the banks of a wide river. Staring hopelessly at the great obstacle in front of him, he pondered for hours on just how to cross such a wide barrier. Just as he was about to give up his pursuit to continue his journey he saw a great teacher on the other side of the river. The young Buddhist yells over to the teacher, “Oh wise one, can you tell me how to get to the other side of this river”?
The teacher ponders for a moment looks up and down the river and yells back, “My son, you are on the other side”.

Gassho,

Timo

[Jundo]

Thank you Timo.

A traditional Buddhist image is that one wishes to cross the river or ocean on a raft of Practice to get from this shore of "ignorance" to the other shore of "enlightenment".

But Master Dogen has a rather interesting view on such. He pointed out that this side of the water, the middle of the water and the other shore are all the water, Buddha ... that the whole voyage of beginning middle and end is arriving at Buddha ... and that one never should put down the raft of Practice even when reaching the other shore!

Dogen wrote ...

The principle of zazen in other schools is to wait for enlightenment. For example, to practice is like crossing over a great ocean on a raft, thinking that having crossed the ocean one should discard the raft. The zazen of Buddha-ancestors is not like this, but is simply Buddha’s practice. We could say that the situation of Buddha’s house is the one in which the essence, practice, and expounding are one and the same. (Eihei Koroku, vol. 8:11)

Taigen Dan Leighton puts it this way ...

I think we easily tend to think that this practice eventually may be something like, if I wait long enough, I'll be enlightened. If I put enough hours into sitting on this cushion, or enough lifetimes, some day, somewhere, when you least expect it, there it will be, the big Enlightenment.

So he says: "The principle of zazen in other schools is to wait for enlightenment."

In many branches of Buddhism you may hear about practicing and eventually reaching enlightenment. But here Dogen criticizes that. He says, for example, some people practice like having crossed over a great ocean on a raft, thinking that upon crossing the ocean one should discard the raft. That's very sensible, right? Maybe some of you have heard this simile of the raft, that once we reach the other shore we don't need the raft any more. But actually Dogen says to please carry the raft with you, as you trudge up into the mountains.

The zazen of our Buddha ancestors is not like waiting for enlightenment, but is simply Buddha's practice.

So this practice we do is not practice to get something, some so-called enlightenment somewhere else, in some other time, in some other state of mind. This is not practice to get higher, or reach some other state of consciousness or being. This is actually the practice of our enlightenment and realization right now. And enlightenment and realization, naturally, leads to practice. There is no enlightenment that is not actually put into practice. Then it would just be some idea of enlightenment; it wouldn't be the actual enlightenment. So each of you is practicing your realization right now. Each of you is realizing your practice right now. This is simply Buddha's practice.

http://www.ancientdragon.org/dharma/...ion_expression

Rev. Kenshu Sugawara writes ...

[I]n Fukanzazengi Zen Master Dogen points out the example of Shakyamuni Buddha who sat upright zazen for six years, although he was wise enough to know the Buddha Dharma at birth. He also mentions Bodhidharma, who sat facing a wall for nine years after coming to China though he had already attained the mind-seal. Dogen stresses that Buddha-ancestors do not practice zazen as a means to an end.

Therefore, as is said in Gakudo Yojinshu, “Realization lies in practice.” Enlightenment is clearly manifested in the Buddha-ancestors’ zazen. In the same vein, in Bendowa Zen Master Dogen wrote, “To suppose that practice and realization are not one is a view of those outside the way. In Buddha Dharma they are inseparable.” He states that when instructing beginners we must teach them not to expect realization outside of practice. Practice is the immediate, original realization. The practice of beginner’s mind is itself the entire original realization. ...

In other schools zazen is a means to gain enlightenment. Like a raft, it is no longer useful when the goal is achieved. Some people boast about their experiences of great enlightenment and kensho. If their zazen practice regresses because of such an experience, that experience is nothing but a delusion that becomes a hindrance to the continuation of practice.

Zen Master Dogen says that the zazen of the Buddha-ancestors is Buddha’s practice. It is a very simple and plain practice of just continuing to sit, letting go of our views. Such zazen embodies the “situation of Buddha’s house” in which the essence (foundation/enlightenment), expounding (explaining the Dharma) and practice are one and the same. Therefore, there is no need to seek the Buddha outside zazen. Zazen is not a practice that produces a Buddha-ancestor but an action causing the Buddha-ancestors to live as Buddha-ancestors. The Buddha-ancestors are beings who have already clarified all kinds of enlightenment and psychological states. They have nothing more to gain, nothing more to realize. When zazen is valued as a practice performed by those Buddha-ancestors, the content of that zazen is called “nothing to attain nothing to enlighten” (Shobogenzo Zuimonki , book 6).

When there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be realized, sitting zazen is “body-mind dropping off (shinjin datsuraku).” Body-mind dropping off is not a wonderful psychological state to be gained as a result of sitting zazen. Rather, zazen itself is nothing but “body-mind dropping off.” It is to escape all kinds of clinging. When we sit zazen, our body-mind naturally drops off and the true Dharma manifests.

http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/library/key_terms/pdf/key_terms01.pdf

Gassho, J

[Daitetsu]

Hi Jundo,

Thanks a lot for sharing this - I've always loved the metaphor of the raft!

AFAIK even for Rinzai people practice actually never stops.
And for us Soto folks with our "practice-enlightenment" this holds true all the more, I guess.

For me personally, there is an additional layer to the raft metaphor:
It is not about leaving/dropping practice, but about dropping our ideas about it and about the Buddha.
We have to transcend the Buddha and all our concepts.
Don't think of becoming the Buddha, but forget the Buddha (i.e. our ideas about him) in order to be the Buddha (who we are anyway). Just be beingness.
Don't think about Zen, don't think about Buddhism, but drop everything - don't be someone, not even a Zen Buddhist, but just be the whole self being itself.
(I am sorry, I have difficulties expressing this without sounding a bit clumsy.)

That's my personal additional interpretation I draw from the raft story (besides the "enlightenment interpretation").

Gassho,

Timo

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo,

Thanks a lot for sharing this - I've always loved the metaphor of the raft!

AFAIK even for Rinzai people practice actually never stops.
And for us Soto folks with our "practice-enlightenment" this holds true all the more, I guess.

For me personally, there is an additional layer to the raft metaphor:
It is not about leaving/dropping practice, but about dropping our ideas about it and about the Buddha.
We have to transcend the Buddha and all our concepts.
Don't think of becoming the Buddha, but forget the Buddha (i.e. our ideas about him) in order to be the Buddha (who we are anyway). Just be beingness.
Don't think about Zen, don't think about Buddhism, but drop everything - don't be someone, not even a Zen Buddhist, but just be the whole self being itself.
(I am sorry, I have difficulties expressing this without sounding a bit clumsy.)

That's my personal additional interpretation I draw from the raft story (besides the "enlightenment interpretation").

Gassho,

Timo

Lovely.

Gassho, J

[Shokai]

I Goolgled "Shinjin datsuraku" and i got Chodo Cross's simply instructive blog; http://fukan-zazengi.blogspot.ca/200...mind-drop.html

gassho, Shokai

[Jundo]

For me personally, there is an additional layer to the raft metaphor:
It is not about leaving/dropping practice, but about dropping our ideas about it and about the Buddha.
We have to transcend the Buddha and all our concepts.
Don't think of becoming the Buddha, but forget the Buddha (i.e. our ideas about him) in order to be the Buddha (who we are anyway). Just be beingness.
Don't think about Zen, don't think about Buddhism, but drop everything - don't be someone, not even a Zen Buddhist, but just be the whole self being itself.
(I am sorry, I have difficulties expressing this without sounding a bit clumsy.)

That's my personal additional interpretation I draw from the raft story (besides the "enlightenment interpretation").

Gassho,

Timo

I might drop in ... this forgetting and seeing through "Buddha" and "Buddhism" is a Gateless Gate to encountering impermanence, emptiness, non-self, True Self, the cure for Dukkha, Original Face, Buddha. It is, in fact, the way back to Buddha and Buddhism. Otherwise, it is simple nihilism ... a definite "no no" in the Buddhist world.

One drops Buddha to find Buddha, drops all concepts of "emptiness" to truly dance the dance of emptiness, etc.

Gassho, J

PS - I might advice to drop "Buddhist" and "Catholic" too!

[Daitetsu]

I might drop in ... this forgetting and seeing through "Buddha" and "Buddhism" is a Gateless Gate to encountering impermanence, emptiness, non-self, True Self, the cure for Dukkha, Original Face, Buddha. It is, in fact, the way back to Buddha and Buddhism. Otherwise, it is simple nihilism ... a definite "no no" in the Buddhist world.

One drops Buddha to find Buddha, drops all concepts of "emptiness" to truly dance the dance of emptiness, etc.

Full ack! Of course I did not mean it in a nihilistic way...

PS - I might advice to drop "Buddhist" and "Catholic" too!

Nooooooo, not again, I guess this will haunt me for the rest of my life!
Don't worry, for me it was never "Buddhist/Catholic", but "Buddhism/Catholicism". For those who don't know what we are talking about - just drop your desire to know as well!

Gassho,

Timo

[Matt]

...one never should put down the raft of Practice even when reaching the other shore!

So much good stuff here, but I particularly like that. ...So, I will not look to my raft as a means to an end. Thank you Jundo and Timo.

Gassho,
Matt J

[Jundo]

Yes, this shore is Buddha, the other shore is Buddha, drowning is Buddha, floating is Buddha, crossing is Buddha, the raft is Buddha, the mountains and marketplace are Buddha, you are Buddha.

No need to think about "Buddha" because what isn't Buddha?

I wish you good sailing and a bon voyage! Try not to tip over.

Gassho, J

[Jishin]

Need to think about Buddha before know that everything is Buddha and then no need to think about Buddha and then Bon Voyage! :-)


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