'GENJO KOAN': Off to the races ...

[TracyF]

It is much the same problem I have when someone tells me that "ultimate reality" is an old man with flowing robes and a long white beard named Jehovah or a meaningless cluster of protons, neutrons and electrons.

*gasp* They are not meaningless...they are beautiful! :wink:

OK, Jundo, I was waiting until we got to this point in the G. Koan before I ask this question.

Here's the part (from thezensite, translated by Aiken)

Those who have great realization of delusion are buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings. Further, there are those who continue realizing beyond realization, who are in delusion throughout delusion.

What does the bolded part mean? Is that overanalyzing things?

[Jundo]

Hi Tracy,

It is much the same problem I have when someone tells me that "ultimate reality" is an old man with flowing robes and a long white beard named Jehovah or a meaningless cluster of protons, neutrons and electrons.

*gasp* They are not meaningless...they are beautiful! :wink:

Oh, I certainly think that protons, neutrons and electrons are beautiful (I am writing a book on it, as a matter of fact). I do not think that they are meaningless at all.

OK, Jundo, I was waiting until we got to this point in the G. Koan before I ask this question.

Here's the part (from thezensite, translated by Aiken)

Those who have great realization of delusion are buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings. Further, there are those who continue realizing beyond realization, who are in delusion throughout delusion.

What does the bolded part mean? Is that overanalyzing things?

You just jumped ahead of me. In fact, I will be covering this on the "Sit-a-long" today. I am working through pretty much line by line. Let me know your impressions after you give it a listen.

Gassho, Jundo

[TracyF]

I certainly think that protons, neutrons and electrons are beautiful (I am writing a book on it, as a matter of fact). I do not think that they are meaningless at all.

Awesome. Hey, if you want me to read any of your manuscript, let me know. Then again, I'm not a physicist. I could forward it to my brother or my sister. His degree was in plasma physics and her's astronomy (of course, their jobs are not really related to their degrees - not a lot of opportunities for those degrees! :roll: ). You probably got it covered though. :wink:

Realization keeps on realizing. Light shines wherever pointed.

Ignorance feeds ignorance. Darkness spirals into darkness.

This is written so much nicer and explained perfectly in your "sit-along". The way I was reading the passage from the zensite was that some people become enlightened but keep on realizing until they over-analyze things and become delusional again. Hello? That doesn't make sense! :lol:

[TracyF]

Again, your lessons really resonate with me, Jundo.

Here's from the zensite:

When buddhas are truly buddhas they do not necessarily notice that they are buddhas. However, they are actualized buddhas, who go on actualizing buddhas.

Here's what your lesson says:

No need to label a "Buddha". Just live as Buddha and there is Buddha.

I really like this. If we live and act with wisdom and compassion (live as Buddha) we are Buddhas. Very inspiring. Thanks, Jundo!

[Jun]

"Buddha is a product of your mind."
- The Bloodsteam sermon, Bodaidaruma.

[Jarkko]

Hello jundo
im sorry but can i ask question in little further in genjo koan? what does Dogen mean when he said

"when dharma does not fill your whole body and mind, you think it is already sufficient. when dharma fills your body and mind, you understand that something is missing"

when the whole world is in the drop of water, how anything could be missing? as a buddha or sentient being i am whole, right?

thank you

Gassho

Jarkko

[Jundo]

Hi Jarkko,

Ah, this is a wonderful section that we will get to soon.

I believe that the answer to your question is in the very next sentences, which begin "for example" ....

When dharma does not fill your whole body and mind, you think it is already sufficient. When dharma fills your body and mind, you understand that something is missing. For example, when you sail out in a boat to the middle of an ocean where no land is in sight, and view the four directions, the ocean looks circular, and does not look any other way. But the ocean is neither round nor square; its features are infinite in variety. It is like a palace. It is like a jewel. It only looks circular as far as you can see at that time. All things are like this.
Though there are many features in the dusty world and the world beyond conditions, you see and understand only what your eye of practice can reach.In order to learn the nature of the myriad things, you must know that although they may look round or square, the other features of oceans and mountains are infinite in variety; whole worlds are there. It is so not only around you, but also directly beneath your feet, or in a drop of water.[EMPHASIS ADDED]

"True Understanding", and being "one" with every grain of sand in the universe, has little to do with actually seeing and comprehending the location, shape, color and texture of every fold on the surface of every grain of sand in the universe. In fact, it is being one with the infinite variety. "True Knowledge" is not knowing every fact and bit of data, but something much more profound.

Contrast this with the sentence immediately before: "The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water."

Get the drift? Does one need to know the nature of every molecule in the hot liquid of your cup in order to savor a sip of tea? Is truly "knowing" your child or lover a matter of knowing every cell in their bodies and every fold of their skin? No. Likewise, true intimacy with the universe is pouring oneself into the universe in all its variety.

(In fact, I think the first part of the sentence you ask about.... When dharma does not fill your whole body and mind, you think it is already sufficient ... is much like when you first fall in love with your lover and it is an immature love. You are head over heals and he/she is thought by you "perfect" and "complete' and you think you "know" the person and want to run off and elope after the first week. It is a naive understanding. Later, you discover the true complexity, and your own ignorance, and the true understanding and love and intimacy deepens.).

Something like that.

I used to try to understand modern art, especially paintings, by understanding every brush stroke and bit of information in the picture. It was only later, when I let the pictures wash over me in all their complexity, did I feel I "got" the abstract art and merged into it. I did not need to know about every molecule in the paint of the painting, or every brushstroke's direction, or the artist's real intention (which often the artist did not know too).

NOT KNOWING! NOT KNOWING! NOT KNOWING!

Let me leave this until we get to that section (first off, I am dead tired and heading to bed. I just want to know every fold of my pillow right now!).

Gassho, Jundo