Two Barriers of Doubt

[Andrea1974]

Throw everything away!

Fundamentally, I agree but if we threw all "everything" away this forum would not exist (how sad would it be? ). Most of the "mental theatre" is completely useless (my mind is like a overly excited monkey with tourette sometimes), but I cannot see thowing it all away. The intellect is a beautiful tool and maybe we need to learn when to use it and when not to rely too much on it. But that sounds just like another mind construction...I will throw it away

Gassho, A

[Jundo]

Fundamentally, I agree but if we threw all "everything" away this forum would not exist (how sad would it be? ). Most of the "mental theatre" is completely useless (my mind is like a overly excited monkey with tourette sometimes), but I cannot see thowing it all away. The intellect is a beautiful tool and maybe we need to learn when to use it and when not to rely too much on it. But that sounds just like another mind construction...I will throw it away

Gassho, A

Actually, in Master Dogen's vision, words and thoughts were not the enemy, if wise thoughts filled with clarity and charity.

When we sit Shikantaza, we drop thoughts and emotions and find a certain Boundless, Open Clarity between and beyond our usual busy mind. We clear out a lot of the junk and clutter from our mental attic. Then, thoughts and emotions return, and we let them go too.

But what actually happens when one sits long enough is that one can find that thoughts and emotions and Wisdom and Compassion are not two, and that Boundless Open Clarity comes to shine beyond, between, right through-and-through, right -as- the very thoughts and emotions themselves. Then, though we still have thoughts and emotions about life, things we like and things we don't, judgments of good and bad, thoughts of this and that and you and me ... all is encountered and seen through much the same yet very differently than before.

Without the intellect and emotions, attractions, desires, aversions, mental categories ... we could not function, could not even choose to get out of bed in the morning. Words and thoughts are not themselves the problem and like any tools (a hammer, a knife) can be used to build or misused for harm.

Gassho, J

[Andrea1974]

Thanks Jundo!

Gassho, A

[Heion]

Hello John

From my understanding, rebirth is a mental state rather than a physical one. Being reborn into a higher conscious level is what is usually meant by rebirth because as good ole' Einstein said "A problem can't be solved on the same plain of consciousness that created it." Therefore, rebirth is cultivated through self-awareness and acceptance. Buddha never directly taught rebirth.
Also, some karma is ineffective and some will not happen for many years. To harm another is to harm ones self and negative actions towards others can come back around when you least expect it. I once read that karmic reactions can be so inconspicuous as a light burning out in your room, which symbolizes when you failed to illuminate a path for another or supply them knowledge. Of course, this is just stuff that I have read.

With metta

[Jundo]

Hello John

From my understanding, rebirth is a mental state rather than a physical one. Being reborn into a higher conscious level is what is usually meant by rebirth because as good ole' Einstein said "A problem can't be solved on the same plain of consciousness that created it." Therefore, rebirth is cultivated through self-awareness and acceptance. Buddha never directly taught rebirth.
Also, some karma is ineffective and some will not happen for many years. To harm another is to harm ones self and negative actions towards others can come back around when you least expect it. I once read that karmic reactions can be so inconspicuous as a light burning out in your room, which symbolizes when you failed to illuminate a path for another or supply them knowledge. Of course, this is just stuff that I have read.

With metta

Hi,

Old insights like this from such youthful folks like you may be one reason folks have felt that people have had many past lives, garnering Wisdom over the ages and ages. What you say may be so.


“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.”

I do not know if Einstein actually said this or not (the source is unclear), but the thought is good. Perhaps this whole matter is well beyond even human ideas of mental and physical, birth and death, and we must think (and not think) outside the box. I sometimes think that it is much like asking birds to explain the physics and principles of aerodynamics! Although they can fly, and are masters of the sky, I doubt they know why.

So, I choose to "carry water and chop wood", as we say in the Zen world. I just deal with what is before me, letting future lives (if any) be.

I like to say that, since it is so ridiculous that we should have been born even ONCE amid all time and space, considering all that was required for that to come about ... well, might as well happen again.

In traditional Buddhism, by the way, rebirth was not really seen as a positive ... but something to be escaped. It is likely the Buddha did teach Rebirth in some form, however, as would an Indian man of his day and time.

Gassho, Jundo

[Amelia]

Fundamentally, I agree but if we threw all "everything" away this forum would not exist (how sad would it be? ).

I don't think that is the kind of throwing away Taigu is talking about. I think it is more about how excess, endless thoughts on karma and rebirth are useless in the face of doing zazen. Believing in either is not necessary for Shikantaza.

Also, some karma is ineffective and some will not happen for many years. To harm another is to harm ones self and negative actions towards others can come back around when you least expect it. I once read that karmic reactions can be so inconspicuous as a light burning out in your room, which symbolizes when you failed to illuminate a path for another or supply them knowledge.

Such energies may exist, and I used to think deeply in such terms myself, but now karma is more of an immediate consequence to me, for any and every action and thought. If you piss off the guy you're supposed to be working for, you won't be hired again, or, if you're mean to your mom on the phone, she will be sad.

So, I choose to "carry water and chop wood", as we say in the Zen world. I just deal with what is before me, letting future lives (if any) be.

I like to say that, since it is so ridiculous that we should have been born even ONCE amid all time and space, considering all that was required for that to come about ... well, might as well happen again.

[Yeshe]

I resonate with what you say Andrea. I wonder if it's more about the strong attachment to the intellect that causes the problems rather than the intellect itself? Things are pure in themselves but if I identifiy with them then maybe that is what's to be thrown away? And who is the one doing the throwing?