non-dual philosophy

[Myozan Kodo]

Still digging. Digging is enough. Digging is it. Every now and then I pause to wipe my forehead and look up to the sky ... A holiday!
Gassho
Myozan

[Ed]

At Daizan:
So happy to see you in this practice settling roots Kojito!
All I can add to your statement on sitting is, me too.

Jundo, that post is why we come here.
Thank you.
In gassho.

[YuimaSLC]

If one intends to dine at a spiritual smorgasbord be aware that an unsettling indigestion may be the result.
Thus, to paraphrase a segment of the mealtime verse, "We eat to sustain health/life, and we accept this food to realize the Way."


Gassho

Richard

[Jakudo]

If one intends to dine at a spiritual smorgasbord be aware that an settling indigestion may be the result.
Thus, to paraphrase a segment of the mealtime verse, "We eat to sustain health/life, and we accept this food to realize the Way."


Gassho

Richard

Well said Richard, I believe to get the full "flavour" of this practise one needs to jump into the void, not just getting our feet wet, but immersing ourselves and getting soaked to the skin. Picking bits and pieces that we find palatable gets us no where, eat the whole thing, gristle and all! Then one can make an informed decision if this practice "works" for you.
Gassho, Jakudo Hinton

[Gen01]

Thank you Daizan.

Gassho.

[Jundo]

Hi,

I watched this video by an interesting "non-dual" teacher named Bob Harwood that has been floating around the last couple of days at various places.

He seems like a very nice and sincere fellow, and he has had some profound experiences in meditation.

At the same time, the video also speaks of how this flavor of meditation and experience is rather unlike Shikantaza. Like but unlike.

If you watch the first 20 or 25 minutes (he really gets into the experiences after the first 10 minutes of introduction) you will hear of some of his experiences, with the emphasis on extra-ordinary arising of "cosmic consciousness", losing a sense of self identity, pure bliss, total oneness ... with an emphasis on staying that way. One must stay in a state of unity for extended periods that get us away from the ordinary experience of life. Separation and this life are an illusion we must get free from. The emphasis is on something real which lets us escape from the ordinary of this world.

In Shikantaza, we are so "non-dual" that we are totally whole, one and unbroken in times we feel "cosmic consciousness" and times we read a comic book, times when we lose our sense of self and times when we find it (and sometimes both at once), times of pure bliss and time of pure blah and times of pure blues (a Bliss that includes all bliss blues and blah ... i.e., life), total Oneness so One that it does not require us to feel "one" all the time. Rather than escape from this world, we run right into total unity with it. In Shikantaza, one is so "non-dual" that there is no "dual" or "non". Separation and this life are an illusion and thus as real as real can be ... and we are One and Whole even when feeling separate or feeling one and whole. The way to get "free" from life is to need to run no where at all. The emphasis is on something real found right in and beyond (not either/or) this very world ... thus we escape with no place in need of running.

The only thing to avoid is greed anger and ignorance (ignorance = feeling only separation and conflict and friction), because that makes a mess of suffering.

I don't know if that made things clearer ... or more of a muck.

Gassho, Jundo

[Hans]

Hello Jundo,

thank you for sharing this "perennial" perspective.

All the best and Gassho,


Hans Chudo Mongen

[Jinyo]

I found myself drawn into watching the whole of the video - Bob Harwood is an engaging speaker and has a nice sense of humor.
But afterwards - and this is so often the case - I couldn't draw anything new or different from what he was saying.

In the main he is saying apprehend the world as a little child - don't get hung up on the structure of language (which is delusary and contributes to our illusory world) - look and listen - but avoid thinking unless it's really necessary.

He talks a lot about 'this' (absolute reality) in distinction to 'I'.

All of the above is fine - but in talking so much about his experiences of 'cosmic consciousness' an element of 'I' ness seemed to intrude and overwhelm what he had to say. I was also confused by his description of Shikantaza - how many of us are sitting in a state of heightened awareness (like we're about to catch a tiger) - dripping in sweat? This isn't what I experience when I tune in to our weekly zazenki - it's not what I observe and its not what I experience.


I haven't had a single experience of 'heightened' cosmic consciousness since practicing shikantaza and that's not what I'm searching for. Just learning to be with what is moment to moment feels reassuringly natural.

Also wondering if we idealise a notion of oceanic bliss?

Anyway - just a few thoughts,

Gassho

Willow

[Matt J]

I had a different impression of this video. It sounds like his main technique is focusing away from thoughts and more on the senses (sight, sound, touch, etc.). He says that over time, this will lead to a loss of a sense of self. Looking at him and listening to him talk, he doesn't seem lost in the bliss of cosmic consciousness.

[Jinyo]

I had a different impression of this video. It sounds like his main technique is focusing away from thoughts and more on the senses (sight, sound, touch, etc.). He says that over time, this will lead to a loss of a sense of self. Looking at him and listening to him talk, he doesn't seem lost in the bliss of cosmic consciousness.

Hi Matt - I agree, Harwood doesn't come across as being lost in the bliss of cosmic consciousness. I think in many ways he seems very grounded.

Probably not expressing myself very well but what I was meaning was questions of what defines psychological unity - which is I think a Zen question - aren't necessarily prompted by existential angst or the sense of 'disunity' - non-unification - dualisitic sensibility - that may follow 'mind blowing enlightenment experience'.

Not wanting to detract from Harwoods experiences at all - just pondering on the fact that this doesn't happen for every one, 'many paths up the mountain' as Jundo says.

Gassho

Willow

[Jundo]

Hi,

Yes, he sounds like a very nice fellow and great Teacher of his way. I suppose it also a powerful path for people called that way.

The difference from (same-difference from) Shikantaza is very subtle, but most vital in my view.

In his talk, there is some emphasis on having an other-worldly and extra-ordinary experience where this world of deceptions is shed, Bliss encountered, and Truth is found.

In Shikantaza, we also sometimes (timeless sometimes) have other-worldly and extra-ordinary experiences where this world of deceptions is shed and Truth is found.

However, in Shikantaza, we also have all manner of Facets of the Jewel. No less, this world is not only shed, but simultaneously fully pierced and embraced (and embracing of us and all things). Days of smiles and days of broken hearts are all Bliss beyond small human dreams of bliss or bleak or blues or blah ... whether felt in any single moment as Bliss or not.

The most worldly is encountered as other-worldly, the most ordinary and plain always extra-ordinary. There is nothing to shed, even as we shed the deception and Truth is found in this life-world-self as it is. Seeing through the deception, we encounter the deceptions as Truth when known as such. No need to go anywhere, experience any other state ... for standing here is the heart of the Buddha land. Realizing that Truth of "no place to go" is really getting and arriving somewhere!

How to put it in simple terms?

In one, there is an emphasis on leaping through the door, getting out of this confining, cluttered, dusty house, and finding Truth in the open, boundless outside. One may come back into the house, but continues to meditate in order to be more and more outside.

In our way, we sometimes go through that door, but also find this confining house no less open and boundless, all divisions and dualism of "in" and "out" dropped away, each bit of clutter and dust simultaneously pure and clear, timeless and free.

Something like that.

A subtle difference ... sameness-difference.

I hope everyone can find the beauty and miracle in all of life, even the least inspiring and seemingly ugliest parts ... a Beauty-Miracle transcending and holding all small human value judgments of beautiful and ugly, inspiring and uninspiring, ordinary and incredible.

Gassho, J

[Matt J]

Jundo,

I think your point is well made no matter how we classify his teaching.

But I do wonder--- especially with the emphasis on the uselessness of zazen--- if zazen, although without a goal, does not change how life is lived. While one goes in and out of the house, so to speak, the experience of being in the house isn't the same as before practice. In some way, there is a change, at least a change in suffering. Or ???

[Jundo]

But I do wonder--- especially with the emphasis on the uselessness of zazen--- if zazen, although without a goal, does not change how life is lived. While one goes in and out of the house, so to speak, the experience of being in the house isn't the same as before practice. In some way, there is a change, at least a change in suffering. Or ???

Hi Matt,

By dropping, to the marrow all need for change, Zen Practice radically changes how life is perceived, embodied and lived. I sometimes write about this strange "Catch 22 Koan" like this ...

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HOW TO ATTAIN ENLIGHTENMENT ... by dropping all need and effort to attain enlightenment ...

... thus, enlightenment immediately attained!

It is often said that our Shikantaza way is about "not seeking", being "goalless", abandoning the need and search for "enlightenment" ...

It is also said sometimes that, in "just sitting," we best drop all desire to be peaceful ... happy ... and just allow the world "as it is" (which includes our quite often being anything but feeling peaceful and happy) ...

But let me get on my soapbox and makes some things clear, set all straight:

Who ever said that there is "nothing to find" in, through and as this practice of "not seeking", no place to "get", no treasure to snare at the end of the rainbow?

Not me. I never would say such a thing. Then why pursue this path?

Who ever said there is no "enlightenment" to be achieved? I never would say that. It would not be Buddhism in that case.

What's more, this practice lets us be happy, joyful. Who said not? Not me.

Ya really got to pay attention to what is being said. You see:

Just because we are "not seeking" does not mean we are "not seeking" ... nor that there aren't wondrous marvels thus to find!

Enlightenment!

To the marrow sitting free of seeking ... is a dandy way thus to find that which can only be found by sitting radically free of seeking. Realizing that there is no where to "get to", and no place you can get or need get ... is finally getting somewhere that will revolutionize life, and put your "you" out of a job. One gets very far, one finally arrives ... by sitting still.

Being the "Buddha" all along, and having not a thing about you that is in need of change ... that does not mean you don't have some work to do to realize truly that you are the Buddha without need of change. To realize that you are never, from the outset, in need of change is a VERY BIG CHANGE! There is absolutely nothing about you and the universe (not two) to add or take away, and tasting that there is "nothing to add" is an irreplaceably important addition!

By being "goalless" we hit the goal ... a goal which is hit by being thoroughly goalless.

In seeing the ordinary as sacred ... we find (as Hakuin Zenji wrote) "this earth where we stand is the Pure Lotus Land, and this very body the body of Buddha". This very life is it!

...

"Shikantaza" Zen practice is a radical, to the marrow, dropping of the self's demands that something needs to be attained to make this world "right", that something must be added or removed from our lives to make life complete, that something is defective and needs to be changed., that we need to get some place to find our "True Home".

HOWEVER, radically dropping, to the marrow all need to attain, add or remove, or change in order to make life right and complete --IS-- A WONDROUS ATTAINMENT, ADDITION and CHANGE TO LIFE! Dropping all need to "get somewhere" is truly finally GETTING SOMEWHERE! The True Home is here and everywhere! Abandoning all need in life's race to cross some finish line over a distant hill, is simply arriving at the finish line which is our every step!

ALL THAT, even as we continue to move forward, make choices, have preferences ... LIVE! Moving forward, yet as still and unmoving as a mountain or a stone ... having choices and preferences while choices and preferences are fully dropped, and we drop all demands to get somewhere ... living passionately, yet not a prisoner of passions ... at once, the still mountains walking, the stone women dancing ...

We fix what needs to be fixed .. in this world, in our life ... all without thought of something to repair. We clean what needs to be cleaned ... the messes and disasters and filthy oil spills ... yet there is no "clean" or "dirty".

GOT HOW THAT WORKS?

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7461-HOW-TO-ATTAIN-ENLIGHTENMENT

[Jakudo]

So in a nutshell...Just Sit! ?

[Matt J]

And so they called it, the Middle Way.

Thank you for your clarity.

Gassho,

Matt

Hi Matt,

By dropping, to the marrow all need for change, Zen Practice radically changes how life is perceived, embodied and lived. I sometimes write about this strange "Catch 22 Koan" like this ...

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