Keep on sitting after sound of bell?

[Daitetsu]

Hello Sangha!

When I sat today (alone), it was "pretty cloudy", hardly any blue sky in my mind.
That's no problem for me, I know that sometimes you have one of these days, and I have learnt to accept this.
Normally, when I hear the bell (I use an App on my smartphone for that), I stop right away, bow, get up, etc.
However, when today's session came near to its end, there it was - blue sky.
Then came the bell...
But instead of stopping, I decided to keep on sitting - I decided it, and after the thought of this decision was gone (hardly a second), again blue sky.
So extended my sitting for about 1 - 2 minutes.

I am not sure if this is alright. I mean, normally I always stop right after the bell, because I do not want to give a "calm phase" more importance than a "stormy phase".
I feel that by extending my session I used the opportunity and gave stillness priority.
However, isn't Shikantaza about the dropping of body and mind?

What do you think?

Gassho,

Timo

[Shujin]

From my very small perspective, I don't see anything wrong with doing this on occasion. The eventual temptation, for me, would be to chase the calm feelings. (my zazen is rather chaotic most of the time) But, ultimately, I don't see it as any different than accepting having to get up before the bell (kids waking in the middle of the night, etc).

Gassho,
Shujin

[Jishin]

When I dont follow the bell, it's mostly because I say ok, enough, I am done, no guilt, just done, time to get up. I sit in the AM before work, so when the bell rings I am ready to go and run in place. Accidentally or not, I have stayed put longer then the bell. I think its all good provided I am not sleep when sitting.

Gassho, JC

[Dosho]

Timo,

I think Shujin hit the nail on the head.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Shohei]

Hi Timo
Just as Shujin said

Myself I do sit past the bell when im really itching to go do something else.

Gassho
Shohei

[Myozan Kodo]

Hi,
Lots of great responses here.

Also, doesn't the end bell signal the start of Zazen, too?

Gassho,
Myozan

[Daitetsu]

Thanks a lot for all your great answers!

Really gave me inspiration.

Gassho,

Timo

[Mp]

Hi Timo
Just as Shujin said

Myself I do sit past the bell when im really itching to go do something else.

Gassho
Shohei

Agreed ... sometimes I sit past the bell to not give into the need to do something else.

Gassho
Shingen

[Jakudo]

I was taught not to sit past the allotted time given to sit and still practise in this way. I was also taught to never cut short the sitting time, as much as I sometimes would like to bolt up and do something else, or if "I" think Zazen has been especially "good" I resist the urge to be greedy and sit past the bell. But that's just me and my old habits.
Gassho, Shawn Jakudo Hinton.

[Rich]

Hi,
Lots of great responses here.

Also, doesn't the end bell signal the start of Zazen, too?

Gassho,
Myozan

Yes, I think so. Whether blue sky or not.

[jeff_u]

There are definitely times when the clouds seem to clear right before the bell is going to ring. All of a sudden everything just feels right but, alas, you know that bell is going to ring. And sometimes, sitting after the bell is just fine. Zazen is Zazen, even after the bell. However, I suspect that if you continue to sit because you're holding on to that perfect feeling then there may be too much you on the cushion and not enough just sitting.

[Jundo]

Zazen never begins and it never ends. Nonetheless, sitting (and all life's moments) begin and end (a Koan).

When the bell rings, we get up and get on with life off the cushion ... also Zazen. Only Zazen seated on the cushion is Zazen, and is indispensable, to be sat each day. Yet all of life, on and off the cushion is Zazen (a Koan).

Most times I get up when the bell rings. That said, sometimes I might sit a bit long ... but there is nothing special about it. I have sat for many hours without getting up once. A profound Samadhi. I have sat through the night in Sesshin, no bells at all. There are such timeless times. Nothing special, just how Zazen was that day. Sometimes I might sit short because of illness or the baby crying in the next room and needing attention. Nothing special, just how Zazen was that day.

Long sitting as something better is not what Shikantaza is about. Short sitting, when necessary (not due to mere laziness) as something worse is not what Shikantaza is about. Shikantaza is not a matter of long or short. It is sitting profoundly with what is ... which may sometimes be profound Samadhi, and sometimes crying babies, and most times the Samadhi of just this moment.

So, yes, once in awhile we may timelessly sit through the bell. Sometimes there may be no bell at all. But most days, we rise with everyone when the bell rings.

Timo asked:

I do not want to give a "calm phase" more importance than a "stormy phase" ... However, isn't Shikantaza about the dropping of body and mind?

Dropping the self's desire and preference for X when life brings us to Y instead ... finding that which holds and transcends X and Y and Z, is "body-mind dropped away". Such is the Open Blue Sky that holds both sun and rain clouds and all life's changing weather. Zazen is not just those times when the clear, open, boundless sky of Samadhi is found (although such timeless moments are vital to this path, a gift, not to be avoided ... come sometimes in almost any sitting on an average day when the sky suddenly peaks through the clouds even for a moment ... and one must sometimelessly lose and find oneself again in boundless crystal sky of profound Samadhi), but also the Sky Samadhi that is present always ... seen or unseen ... amid and as all the changing weather, even the darkest obscuring clouds. This practice is to know and be and find the Sky in all its changing nature ... even when hidden temporarily as stormy days. Even when hidden by clouds, the blue is there all along. Both the blue sky and the clouds are the sky … do not seek to break up the sky by rejecting any part of it (even the parts we reject. A Koan).

But though sky and clouds are not two, NONETHELESS, DO NOT BECOME LOST IN THE CLOUDS OR SWEPT AWAY BY THE STORM of thoughts and emotions. This is our way in ‘Just Sitting’ Shikantaza Zazen. When you see the clouds, be as if you are thereby seeing the clouds as blue. When you see the blue, you may also see the blue as clouds.

In fact, as you advance in this practice, you will find that the blue sky illuminates, shines through the clouds … is the very enlightening lightness of floating clouds themselves ... and we can come to experience both together… both cloud and clarity … as one.

Gassho, Jundo

[Heisoku]

This is a wonderful teaching Jundo. Thank you and deep bows.

[Kyonin]

Thank you for this teaching, Jundo.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Daitetsu]

Thanks a lot, Jundo (and all who replied) - this was very helpful indeed!

Deep bows,

Timo