scandals

[Rich]

Thanks taigu and hans.

If there is / was a scandal I think everyone is late. I mean the guy is 105.

[Dosho]

it's not about Brad's practise, it's not about Sasaki's practise or Shakyamuni Buddha's practise. Only about your own practise. How will you act when you are in a position of authority. how will you act when you get to know about a teacher sexually abusing someone first hand?

YOUR practise, YOUR life, all else is building a few new appartments inside a daydream castle.

I know that...my question was whether or not people who consider Brad their teacher (and there are plenty of those) know that and how they will deal with him saying that he's not a zen teacher.

But perhaps Jundo is right and Brad is just joking.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Omoi Otoshi]

Yup!

Gassho,
Pontus

[Hans]

Hello,

it's not about Brad's practise, it's not about Sasaki's practise or Shakyamuni Buddha's practise. Only about your own practise. How will you act when you are in a position of authority. how will you act when you get to know about a teacher sexually abusing someone first hand?

YOUR practise, YOUR life, all else is building a few new appartments inside a daydream castle.

Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[Hogen]

I see Dosho's point re: the pedestal that some put Brad (and all teachers, as well) on. I like and enjoy his writing, but I've never for once considered him a teacher nor do I think he would ever want to be a teacher to anyone! But perhaps we are all guilty (at times) of some adoration of teachers and think of them without fault.

[Dosho]

I am an inbetweener on the "rules" I suppose.

And I tend to take things a little too seriously.

We shall see.

Gassho, D

[Jundo]

I don't think he is serious.

Nishijima's Roshi's students are a diverse bunch, I often refer to as the Island of Misfit Zen Toys (referring to an old children's program in the US seen this time of year about an island near the North Pole where all the broken and misfit toys went to live from Santa's workshop ... the wooden train with 5 wheels, for example, and the square basketball ... )...



Nishijima provided a home to some folks, each very devoted to this Zen Way in his or her own way. They range from Brad, on the one hand, to Dagmar Doko Waskoenig in Germany and Austria, a very conservative teacher who is very serious about the Vinaya rules, and became a full Vinaya nun ...

http://www.buddhistwomen.eu/EN/index.php/Documentation/DagmarWaskoenig

... and many folks in between. I am an inbetweener on the "rules" I suppose.

Gassho, Jundo

[Dosho]

I don't see that Bro. Brad Warner said anything about putting his robes up on Ebay

Brad said, in a comment on his own Facebook post:

I'll put the robes up on eBay pretty soon. Hopefully I can get some of my money back!

Of course he could be joking, but he made a seperate comment about his rakusus and kesa:

I'll keep the stuff that Nishijima gave me, like the rakusus and kesa. I'll also keep one of the robes because it has an interesting history. But I won't be wearing them in any clergy type capacity ever again for fear of causing more confusion.

That led me to the conclusion that he meant his underrobes, but with Brad anything is possible (and I mean that in a good way for the most part).

All that aside, my only concern is for people who did consider him their teacher. Many of the people who follow his blog and Facebook page will undoubtedly think Brad's words very wise and perhaps they are if they merely reveal who he has been all along (again, not saying that's a bad thing). I've complained in the past that he sees himself as an entertainer and he said exactly that in his original post:

Just for the record, I do not now, nor have I ever considered myself a "member of clergy." I am a writer and an entertainer. It's true that I was once ordained as a monk. That was a mistake. I apologize for the confusion.

So, I'm fine with what he said, although I'll admit referring to his ordination as a "mistake" did surprise me. I just figure some people will be upset and I hope Brad will see it as an obligation, clergy or not, to guide those folks to other resources.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Jundo]

I don't see that Brad Warner said anything about putting his robes up on Ebay, and his comment (in a Facebook post) about not considering himself clergy is not so shocking. Our whole Lineage is very much about softening and knocking down all the traditional barriers in Buddhism between "Ordained Clergy" "Lay Householders" "Male" and "Female". I would disagree with him about whether we are "clergy", because we function in that role in my eyes. Brad sometimes describes himself more as an "artist" or "Zen troubadour" or "spiritual entertainer", the label Alan Watts used to describe himself, and Brad may actually be a more effective voice of the Dharma in such role than leading a typical Zen Group or preaching to the same choir as all the other Zen folks.

I wear the Chinese Robes out of respect for Tradition, and only once in awhile at our more formal Zazenkai, honoring Tradition. One can sit Zazen in a track suit or naked too.

I wear the Kesa/Rakusu as an embodiment and symbol for the Buddha's Teachings and this Way ... but I feel I do so merely as a convention of my own heart. The magic is what I place in the threads by my sentiment. It is not unlike how Christians might stick two pieces of ordinary wood together and find the embodiment of their Teachings in doing so ... And it is the same for the ordinary cloth of a Kesa. The Buddha's Cloth is the "Robe of Liberation ... Beyond Form or Formless" because we place such meaning there.

Anyway, Brad is keeping his it seems, so he must also see some value in such.

As to sex scandals that pop up among some Zen Roshi (the latest being Sasaki Roshi, now 105 but apparently a groper in the Dokusan room for 50 years), I once wrote this ...

--------------------------

Today's subject in our "BIG Questions" series ... "When Roshis Act Ugly, Small And All Too Human".

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6878-Jundo-Tackles-the-%26%2339%3BBIG%26%2339%3B-Questions-IX-%28Bad-Roshis%29

[Dosho]

Taigu,

Actually he said he's going to keep the rakusus and kesas, so he must have meant his kimono and/or koromo for sale on eBay. I suggested he return the rakusus and kesas to Nishijima, but I tend to doubt he'll take any advice I offer.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Taigu]

Brad says he is going to sell his Okesa on ebay ( he is a great guy but useless with a needle...I am just the opposite, great with a needle, usless as a man), teachers are but sexual predators ( look at all the scandals in America). So...What to think? Let me tell you something, some thirty years ago I have sewn my first robe, I still do, as long as I liive I wish I will. No best seller. Not funky-punky-brilliant Dharma. Salaryman in the train.

what is important?

"Dogen's naked bones sitting
Your naked bones sitting
Bones sitting"


everything else is noise, chatter, smoke.


Back to the cushion.





Taigu


PS: As I was telling one of my students tonight, how can Brad let go of the kesa as he sits and wears it from the start? Like all of you...So no worry, really ( on top of this, he has never sewn a kesa) So...all is well. and please do ,isten to his teaching, a great teaching indeed.